PNG images in switch layer too pixilated

rogermate · Post by **rogermate** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:56 pm

I made a number of images with transparency to import to ASPro
to build parts of a characters. I used tools in Gimp to make the edge boundaries blurred, and the composite image looks pretty good when
viewing the undlerying face and the switch layer images on top.

But when I using the very same images exported as PNG images in ASPro, the images look very heavily pixilated. Big squares with jacked lines define the pixels.

How do I set ASPro to render as it looks in Gimp?

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:46 pm

I don't work much with images, but it makes sense that one pixel image exported as another would have a possible 'doubling' effect on the pixels, both not being exactly aligned. I would do any blurring effect in ASP. If you can separate the necessary blurred elements into individual layers, you can composite them within ASP and use layer blurring.

I think this works much as photocopying a photocopy, but I'm sure some else may know better. As a general rule, I'd imagine, you should always make your images in a higher resolution that your animation output.

But like I said, I'm no authority on images.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:41 am

Check if you export your images as 32bit PNGs from GIMP, and not, by mistake, as 8bit which will not give you the smooth borders to transpareny.

rylleman · Post by **rylleman** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:06 am

Also, is it when your working in AS you see this or after you've rendered?

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:57 am

Ah, I forgot to mention the size. If your AS project size is 768 x 576px, a BG made in Gimp must be of the same size or a bit larger to look good. If you have a small object in the scene and want to zoom in to it (say, a face which normally is 1/8 screen high, but you want to zoom in for a close up) the size you need is the one it will have in the zoom in state (so the face needs to be about 576 px high).

rogermate · Post by **rogermate** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:35 am

slowtiger wrote:Ah, I forgot to mention the size. If your AS project size is 768 x 576px, a BG made in Gimp must be of the same size or a bit larger to look good. If you have a small object in the scene and want to zoom in to it (say, a face which normally is 1/8 screen high, but you want to zoom in for a close up) the size you need is the one it will have in the zoom in state (so the face needs to be about 576 px high).

SlowTiger you also anticipated correctly another possible cause to the problem, and a disadvantage of images versus vector. I have pieces of the face like eyes and mouth which I want to animate in a switch layer, so yes in a sense they are zoomed in. MY AS project is 640 * 480, which is the same resolution of the images used for the face. The entire face is at most the same proportion to the working view size, so scaling I didn't think would have been a huge issue. There are no closeups on the mouth, just the same proportion. I see how higher res would help though.

But I'm still baffled by the pixilation being more pronounced in AS both while editing and in a Rendered image & animation. The pixilation is very pronounced when viewed in ASPro, but is smoothed away in Gimp, as the other poster inquired. When I'm viewing at the same size in Gimp vs. AS the edges appear smooth in Gimp. I've used some Gimp tools to blur and fade the edges but when I exported to PNG, these face parts the smoothness does transfer. I can confirm by opening the PNG images back in Gimp that they look the same there.

I didn't do anything other than a default import into the image layer in ASPro, don't know if any settings were to be used there.

*I will check on the PNG export bit depth, I never manually set anything and just took the default.

*Also, I looked at one poster's suggestion of blurring within AS, and the image layer blur works on the entire layer, so not sure what was meant there.

Thanks for the ideas. I'm still trying to figure out why the pixilation is more pronounced and am open to any suggestions.

rogermate · Post by **rogermate** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:56 am

rylleman wrote:Also, is it when your working in AS you see this or after you've rendered?

Both.

I don't see it in Gimp when working natively in Gimp at the same zoom size on screen, or after exporting to PNG and reimporting and viewing in Gimp.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:30 am

OK, I did a test and created some test image in Gimp. Export and import worked fine, the image quality was always top, in Gimp, in Photoshop, and in AS.

Did you, by any chance, forget to render the image in AS? (It's ctrl-R) Because everything you see on screen while animating is just a low quality preview. So please try and render the image, or export one frame from AS and watch that.

Of course you created your artwork in Gimp on a transparent layer, I suppose ...

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:57 pm

Also, I looked at one poster's suggestion of blurring within AS, and the image layer blur works on the entire layer, so not sure what was meant there.

Well you'd have to import whatever you're blurring (outline, highlights,etc.) as separate layer/s. As long as you are using PNG's with transparency, you can stack the layers to get the same (or similar) effect. Since images don't interpolate in switch layers anyway, these can be composited in a group (or bone) layer.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:28 pm

Try checking the "Extra Smooth Images" check box in the render settings. It slows down the render times but may help. I never have seen this problem you are having either. I have a current project that is ENTIRELY made up of images. They render perfectly, no pixelation. I've never had a problem with pixleation except for rough edges on custom brush images. AS doesn't antialias brush images very well.

-vern

rogermate · Post by **rogermate** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:39 pm

slowtiger wrote:OK, I did a test and created some test image in Gimp. Export and import worked fine, the image quality was always top, in Gimp, in Photoshop, and in AS.

Did you, by any chance, forget to render the image in AS? (It's ctrl-R) Because everything you see on screen while animating is just a low quality preview. So please try and render the image, or export one frame from AS and watch that.

Of course you created your artwork in Gimp on a transparent layer, I suppose ...

Yes, the image was created on a transparent layer. But you are right that rendering produces the better results. My prior impression of the fully renderred image perceived the pixelation problem, but the issue was because of another different problem which has since been corrected.

If it might help other beginning users, the other problem that I had was that some of the images designed to be placed on top of the lower image were highly sensitive to fitting/aligning to the background and the pronounced edge was not pixelation so much as border noise.
After solving the X,Y position and redoing a rendering of the animation, it looks good.

Thanks again to all of you for your help. Next time, I'm going to try to start with as high resolution images as I can.

rogermate · Post by **rogermate** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:44 pm

synthsin75 wrote:
Also, I looked at one poster's suggestion of blurring within AS, and the image layer blur works on the entire layer, so not sure what was meant there.
Well you'd have to import whatever you're blurring (outline, highlights,etc.) as separate layer/s. As long as you are using PNG's with transparency, you can stack the layers to get the same (or similar) effect. Since images don't interpolate in switch layers anyway, these can be composited in a group (or bone) layer.

While my particular problem was related to rendering and positioning, I hadn't thought of animating with multiple layers for an image similar to how images are built in graphics packages. Neat idea. Definitely opportunities for interesting effects there.