Flash Armature
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synthsin75
- Posts: 10266
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
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I have a friend who's a "Flash Fan" and he just sent me this link, showing the CS4 bones working in an "AS-wannabe" way (check the second clip).
http://coldhardflash.com/2008/09/bone-u ... h-cs4.html
Looks a bit limited to me. Is this just a simple example, or can CS4 do anything more complex (like AS can)?
http://coldhardflash.com/2008/09/bone-u ... h-cs4.html
Looks a bit limited to me. Is this just a simple example, or can CS4 do anything more complex (like AS can)?
It is pretty cool. The best part of it is that the bones are "runtime". this means an exported SWF with "bones" can be interactively moved around by the user.
Notice something interesting though. Something we have been saying for ages and ages about AS and bones. Use FEWER POINTS to get smoother movement. So comparisons at least will be fair.
I have a few predictions and theories about how this might effect AS in the long term.
First off Flash has of course, Actionscript, and now with bones this becomes a pretty powerful combination. Assuming of course that bones can be fully scripted with Actionscript. This is a feature that could seriously compete with AS and its own scripting.
Flash has a RUNTIME engine. Exported SWF files can be interactive. AS does not have this... uh... er... yet.
If SM has the motivation and wherewithal to do it, AS could compete on that level. I've at least proven to myself that lua in AS is just as powerful a scripting language as Actionscript. I've converted Actionscript to lua without too much trouble. The only thing holding it back in AS is that AS uses an "old" version of lua and there is still some things not accessible to it... and it doesn't have a runtime engine.
To tackle the "accessibility" problem this would mean exposing much more of the AS interface to lua. A good start. The second step would be a lot more difficult but not entirely impossible. Some on the forum have suggested javascript in AS instead of lua. This would be a HUGE undertaking, however the main benefit would be the potential for possibly being able to export some sort of interactivity within AS to the SWF format (JavaScript and Flash Actionscript share a "syntactical core" which is ECMAScript. So basically Actionscript is pretty much "the same" as Javascript... not exactlly of course but pretty darn close.)
So switching AS to Javascript could possibly maybe... maybe help port some scripting stuff to SWF. Since this is all theoretical I am really just talkng out my arse.
Another possibility would be to do some type of "conversion" when exporting to SWF. Lua to Actionscript. I've done this by hand. I would say that 95% of what I did was done with very straight forward regex search and replace. With more effort maybe it could all be done but it would require extensive conversion libraries I think. Beyond my expertise.
Another option would be a "run time engine" created specifically for AS files that would support embedded lua scripts. Lua is open source there wouldn't be any licensing costs for a developer. This would just be like an AS "player". It wouldn't be a "Flash Killer" but it might fit into a niche somehow.
Better yet, maybe a "lua interpreter" could be created in Flash. Flash has the ability to include external libraries of this type when exporting SWF.
In conclusion I think SM (Smith Micro) needs to consider the future of AS and how Flash now has one of the key features that in the past, made AS so much better for 2D character animation. There is still the price. AS is much cheaper than Flash. The learning curve is way lower... but still. With bones, Flash is well on its way to being a very viable alternative to AS.
-vern
Notice something interesting though. Something we have been saying for ages and ages about AS and bones. Use FEWER POINTS to get smoother movement. So comparisons at least will be fair.
I have a few predictions and theories about how this might effect AS in the long term.
First off Flash has of course, Actionscript, and now with bones this becomes a pretty powerful combination. Assuming of course that bones can be fully scripted with Actionscript. This is a feature that could seriously compete with AS and its own scripting.
Flash has a RUNTIME engine. Exported SWF files can be interactive. AS does not have this... uh... er... yet.
If SM has the motivation and wherewithal to do it, AS could compete on that level. I've at least proven to myself that lua in AS is just as powerful a scripting language as Actionscript. I've converted Actionscript to lua without too much trouble. The only thing holding it back in AS is that AS uses an "old" version of lua and there is still some things not accessible to it... and it doesn't have a runtime engine.
To tackle the "accessibility" problem this would mean exposing much more of the AS interface to lua. A good start. The second step would be a lot more difficult but not entirely impossible. Some on the forum have suggested javascript in AS instead of lua. This would be a HUGE undertaking, however the main benefit would be the potential for possibly being able to export some sort of interactivity within AS to the SWF format (JavaScript and Flash Actionscript share a "syntactical core" which is ECMAScript. So basically Actionscript is pretty much "the same" as Javascript... not exactlly of course but pretty darn close.)
So switching AS to Javascript could possibly maybe... maybe help port some scripting stuff to SWF. Since this is all theoretical I am really just talkng out my arse.
Another possibility would be to do some type of "conversion" when exporting to SWF. Lua to Actionscript. I've done this by hand. I would say that 95% of what I did was done with very straight forward regex search and replace. With more effort maybe it could all be done but it would require extensive conversion libraries I think. Beyond my expertise.
Another option would be a "run time engine" created specifically for AS files that would support embedded lua scripts. Lua is open source there wouldn't be any licensing costs for a developer. This would just be like an AS "player". It wouldn't be a "Flash Killer" but it might fit into a niche somehow.
Better yet, maybe a "lua interpreter" could be created in Flash. Flash has the ability to include external libraries of this type when exporting SWF.
In conclusion I think SM (Smith Micro) needs to consider the future of AS and how Flash now has one of the key features that in the past, made AS so much better for 2D character animation. There is still the price. AS is much cheaper than Flash. The learning curve is way lower... but still. With bones, Flash is well on its way to being a very viable alternative to AS.
-vern
I tried Flash CS4 today
So far you guys got nothing to worry about. I'm not saying the Tucker car has no reverse gear but I was quite disappointed.
Flash has IK... fine, but here's the compromise... Anything with bones cannot have animated frames meaning that graphics and movie clips can be tossed around with bones but cannot have a time line, even if they do a movie clip can only show frame one. Once your graphics are boned you'll have to destroy all the bones to modify your graphics. You cannot copy and paste bones either, so forget that idea. You cannot animate a individual bone scale which I find very useful in AS. For bone dynamics, it has only a speed selector and it didn't seem to do much but I'll have to try it some more. You cannot mask a bone animation, you cannot copy frames of a bone animation. Where AS has a region selection to animate where Flash makes you select which points to be influenced... again fine except the actual points are barely seen from all the gigantic thick outline shapes that indicate which point are selected and not selected, and even where the points are located in squares. If only the line thickness of the indicators didn't scale when zoomed in would help that much more. With triangles and squares all over the place when there's a complex shape it can turn into a big mess that you can't see anything or select anything. And another thing if the shape is too complex it just says "I can't do it it's too complicated" ...nice!
You can convert the bone animation into frame by frame stills then you can do as you wish... Big whoop!
Flash has IK... fine, but here's the compromise... Anything with bones cannot have animated frames meaning that graphics and movie clips can be tossed around with bones but cannot have a time line, even if they do a movie clip can only show frame one. Once your graphics are boned you'll have to destroy all the bones to modify your graphics. You cannot copy and paste bones either, so forget that idea. You cannot animate a individual bone scale which I find very useful in AS. For bone dynamics, it has only a speed selector and it didn't seem to do much but I'll have to try it some more. You cannot mask a bone animation, you cannot copy frames of a bone animation. Where AS has a region selection to animate where Flash makes you select which points to be influenced... again fine except the actual points are barely seen from all the gigantic thick outline shapes that indicate which point are selected and not selected, and even where the points are located in squares. If only the line thickness of the indicators didn't scale when zoomed in would help that much more. With triangles and squares all over the place when there's a complex shape it can turn into a big mess that you can't see anything or select anything. And another thing if the shape is too complex it just says "I can't do it it's too complicated" ...nice!
You can convert the bone animation into frame by frame stills then you can do as you wish... Big whoop!
http://www.keyframer.com/index.php/2008 ... ol-sample/
Would like to see what the Anime Studio gods make of this, also the comments below the sample.
Would like to see what the Anime Studio gods make of this, also the comments below the sample.
Make of it in what regard?
It looks like a real straightforward thing to do in AS -- about the only "odd" (not even that, really, just the way the animator is using the tools) part is the legs are translated at the same time they are rotated (at least, insofar as doing the same thing in AS would entail).
Leaving aside for the moment the actual drawing of the dinosaur, the total boning and animation would take less than a minute inside of AS. I'm guessing (just guessing, mind you) that the process is considerably more complicated in Flash.
As to to what it means -- one of the strengths (I hesitate to say main strength, but that's what it seems like to me) of AS is how easy the boning process is to create and use. It doesn't appear (once again, only from the description of others) that it's nearly that easy in Flash, and it also appears that's fundamental to how it was constructed. IOW, it's unlikely that bones will get any easier/better in Flash because of the implementation, just as they are easy in AS due to how they are implemented.
You can improve a basic feature, obviously, but to completely change how it's implemented is almost impossible (and almost never done). That's another good reason why you should never buy software on the promise of what it *might* do sometime in the future.
It looks like a real straightforward thing to do in AS -- about the only "odd" (not even that, really, just the way the animator is using the tools) part is the legs are translated at the same time they are rotated (at least, insofar as doing the same thing in AS would entail).
Leaving aside for the moment the actual drawing of the dinosaur, the total boning and animation would take less than a minute inside of AS. I'm guessing (just guessing, mind you) that the process is considerably more complicated in Flash.
As to to what it means -- one of the strengths (I hesitate to say main strength, but that's what it seems like to me) of AS is how easy the boning process is to create and use. It doesn't appear (once again, only from the description of others) that it's nearly that easy in Flash, and it also appears that's fundamental to how it was constructed. IOW, it's unlikely that bones will get any easier/better in Flash because of the implementation, just as they are easy in AS due to how they are implemented.
You can improve a basic feature, obviously, but to completely change how it's implemented is almost impossible (and almost never done). That's another good reason why you should never buy software on the promise of what it *might* do sometime in the future.
In general, Flash is more complicated to use than AS. The more I read about this new feature the more I find it is "overly complicated" to use. Of course I should hold judgment until I actually use this new feature in Flash... not going to be for a while though.
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p.s. Totally irrelevant... but... I have to tell someone... there is a freaking cat in heat wandering around outside my house mewling non stop for 3 days now. It is driving me insane. I can't find it. I can't see it. When I go outside to look it stops before I can find it's location.
next step... can of tuna and a safe trap I have in the basement...
-vern
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p.s. Totally irrelevant... but... I have to tell someone... there is a freaking cat in heat wandering around outside my house mewling non stop for 3 days now. It is driving me insane. I can't find it. I can't see it. When I go outside to look it stops before I can find it's location.
next step... can of tuna and a safe trap I have in the basement...
-vern
Off topic...
Holy cow...
5 minutes after posting my last message about the cat my neighbors two houses down were in my back yard trying to get my out side basement door open. Apparently several days ago while cutting down a tree in my yard I left those doors open and their cat got into my basement and I locked him in without even knowing it.
He's been down there meowing for at least 3 days... maybe 4. They had even put up signs for a lost cat and I wondered if the cat driving me crazy was the same one maybe trapped somewhere nearby.
So here's what was going on. I live in a row house. The meowing cat did not seem like it was coming from my basement although I thought that might be the case and I searched down there without any luck. The cat is a declawed indoor cat totally afraid of everything. Every time I moved or made too much noise looking for him... he stopped meowing and I had no way to "track" him.
He is safe now. He finally came out after I left the basement door open. We had to wait for him to come out... coaxed with some food.
-vern
Holy cow...
5 minutes after posting my last message about the cat my neighbors two houses down were in my back yard trying to get my out side basement door open. Apparently several days ago while cutting down a tree in my yard I left those doors open and their cat got into my basement and I locked him in without even knowing it.
He's been down there meowing for at least 3 days... maybe 4. They had even put up signs for a lost cat and I wondered if the cat driving me crazy was the same one maybe trapped somewhere nearby.
So here's what was going on. I live in a row house. The meowing cat did not seem like it was coming from my basement although I thought that might be the case and I searched down there without any luck. The cat is a declawed indoor cat totally afraid of everything. Every time I moved or made too much noise looking for him... he stopped meowing and I had no way to "track" him.
He is safe now. He finally came out after I left the basement door open. We had to wait for him to come out... coaxed with some food.
-vern
Vern,
As a cat lover, I'm glad to hear about the success of the "rescue".
As much as a cat person as my wife and I are, one snowy winter I had the garage door open while I deiced the driveway and then went back inside. Much later our own cats were going crazy at the garage door (inside the house) and when I went out there I found I had trapped a cat in there accidentally. As a cat person I was able to get the cat (although he was very afraid -- took the better part of the afternoon as the garage was jammed packed with stuff).
Since we had the cars parked out on the driveway (due to all the stuff in the garage) that door had been closed for nearly a week. Luckily cats are very successful at surviving for long periods without food or water -- he was very hungry and thirsty but no permanent damage. Still, goes to show that even cat people can make this mistake.
As a cat lover, I'm glad to hear about the success of the "rescue".
As much as a cat person as my wife and I are, one snowy winter I had the garage door open while I deiced the driveway and then went back inside. Much later our own cats were going crazy at the garage door (inside the house) and when I went out there I found I had trapped a cat in there accidentally. As a cat person I was able to get the cat (although he was very afraid -- took the better part of the afternoon as the garage was jammed packed with stuff).
Since we had the cars parked out on the driveway (due to all the stuff in the garage) that door had been closed for nearly a week. Luckily cats are very successful at surviving for long periods without food or water -- he was very hungry and thirsty but no permanent damage. Still, goes to show that even cat people can make this mistake.