How I can make head turn + Talking mouth + moving eyes? @.@

Imago · Post by **Imago** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:01 pm

There some way to made an acceptable character with head turn, talking mouth and moving eyes... all togheter?
I've made some try, but everytime something goes wrong, like the mouth casted away when talking, or the eyes deformed under the ear...
Madness?

(This is Sparta!

)

Imago · Post by **Imago** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:03 pm

Uhm...
It seems to be an impossible task... No one answered!

Got it, I'll look for another method!

PARKER · Post by **PARKER** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:43 pm

You could do it frame by frame.
Its just an idea.

It seems you liked 300 a lot imago, i liked it too.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:53 pm

One day? Less than 24 hours? You ask for help on an extremely difficult task in the middle of a US 3 day holiday weekend at the end of the season just before school starts again and many people take vacations, and assume it's impossible because no one answers right away.

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A head turn is NOT an impossible task but it also also not an "easy" task either. It is the HOLY GRAIL of animation, not just Anime Studio. In AS You could use a switch layer, or you could use bones on vector layers. I use a very complex combination of bones and scripting not easily explained quickly. It would take me more than 24 hours to even describe it effectively

. Search the forum for head turns you will get many results and several different approaches. Do a search on "head turns". Check out the scripting section. Look at the "morph dials" scripted solution. Depends on your level of skill with AS though to make any of these approaches work.

Give this topic some time and you will get responses but please make an effort to search the forum. You will get a TON of results but look through them. If you expect PERFECTION in only ONE DAY and get ANNOYED when no one answers IMMEDIATELY you may be expecting too much both from this forum and possibly from learning animation. This forum is QUICK but within reason.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:00 pm

How much work did you already invest yourself? If you want an easy head turn without thinking, get a 3D software.

This is 2D. Draw a front head and a side view head on paper and do inbetweens the old-fashioned way to get an understanding of the task. Then try to achieve a similar result in AS.

Imago · Post by **Imago** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:11 pm

heyvern wrote:One day? Less than 24 hours? You ask for help on an extremely difficult task in the middle of a US 3 day holiday weekend at the end of the season just before school starts again and many people take vacations, and assume it's impossible because no one answers right away.

--------------

A head turn is NOT an impossible task but it also also not an "easy" task either. It is the HOLY GRAIL of animation, not just Anime Studio. In AS You could use a switch layer, or you could use bones on vector layers. I use a very complex combination of bones and scripting not easily explained quickly. It would take me more than 24 hours to even describe it effectively . Search the forum for head turns you will get many results and several different approaches. Do a search on "head turns". Check out the scripting section. Look at the "morph dials" scripted solution. Depends on your level of skill with AS though to make any of these approaches work.

Give this topic some time and you will get responses but please make an effort to search the forum. You will get a TON of results but look through them. If you expect PERFECTION in only ONE DAY and get ANNOYED when no one answers IMMEDIATELY you may be expecting too much both from this forum and possibly from learning animation. This forum is QUICK but within reason.

-vern

You're right!

For some reason I was sure this thread was 5 days-old...
I'm sorry!

Returning to the thread:
The Head turn isn't the problem...
The problem is the mouth and eyes... I use the interpolate function to move them... but it's incompatible whit the head turn: The mouth return to the first place, then go to the head turn position deformed orribly.... Same thing whit eyes. Switch layers don't help so much...
Some idea? I have to draw every frame of the head turn?

------

slowtiger wrote:How much work did you already invest yourself? If you want an easy head turn without thinking, get a 3D software.

This is 2D. Draw a front head and a side view head on paper and do inbetweens the old-fashioned way to get an understanding of the task. Then try to achieve a similar result in AS.

Mea culpa! Mea culpa! T.T

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:05 pm

It is a common confusion from the AS users that they believe that doing a bone rig or using master scripts you can obtain any kind of expression/pose.

Even the most experienced animator of the world with the most expensive and complex 2D animation program will draw each main pose by hand!

Please grab that with fire on your minds! There is not magic rig for everything! and if there is, it lacks of expression and the magic of human interaction.

The correct way to work in any animation is to study each scene carefully, draw the main poses and then (and only after that) prepare a rig for that scene. Later you can reuse that rig in similar scene but never think on reuse it continuously!

Animation costs time & effort, needs patience, perseverance, and imagination. And any script or bone rig would replace the human ability to give life to a drawing.

-G

Imago · Post by **Imago** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:25 am

Genete wrote:It is a common confusion from the AS users that they believe that doing a bone rig or using master scripts you can obtain any kind of expression/pose.

Even the most experienced animator of the world with the most expensive and complex 2D animation program will draw each main pose by hand!

Please grab that with fire on your minds! There is not magic rig for everything! and if there is, it lacks of expression and the magic of human interaction.

The correct way to work in any animation is to study each scene carefully, draw the main poses and then (and only after that) prepare a rig for that scene. Later you can reuse that rig in similar scene but never think on reuse it continuously!

Animation costs time & effort, needs patience, perseverance, and imagination. And any script or bone rig would replace the human ability to give life to a drawing.

-G

Due to my bad english, somewhere I said something wrong... My apologies...

My question was "how to combine" some of the common tecnique to animate the head, the eyes and the mouth without distortions... I never looked for a "magic script" or a special rig... I work the most on vectors and points with the interpolate switch layer...

If I made you angry, I'm sorry...

Imago · Post by **Imago** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:25 am

Here, this is a test of my first charecter.
I've made a simple head turn whit mouth+eyes movements...
The frame rate is 25.

http://www.mediafire.com/?exndm4zymak

I thinking to add another frame between the 3/4 and the profile, what do you think?

P.S.
Look on the left elbow... That white line is driving me mad... How can I get rid of it?

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:04 am

Now we're talking!

As I suspected, you have a problem with the genuine construction of the head. This is a common mistake, and known as "linear inbetween".

Using your front and side view as a guide, I made a simple top view of the head. The green indicates the eyes, the orange crosshair indicates the pivot point of the head.

Now you easily see that your 45° head in the middle isn't correct. The blue lines should be straight. Instead all your facial features are somehow shifted. You have to remember that they are not simply translated from one side to the other, but instead are part of a rotating object (the head).

I made a quick sketch in PS here:

This is a much better perspective. Please note the dotted orange line. Your head isn't a sphere. Instead it has a surface with hills (the nose) and valleys (the eyes).

I'd recommend you rework your head design. Get a clear idea of how deep the eyes are inside the head - they're not just painted on the head, they are objects with an own volume. Then do a top view, with all the important parts. Using this as a guide, you can easily create a 45° head, and even more inbetweens, like a 67,5° and a 22,5° view (which is a 1/8 and a 3/8 view).

In bigger productions it is common to create little puppet heads of the main characters so the animators can turn these in their hands and have a reference for every angle. What we do here with the top view is just a simpler version of that technique.

Imago · Post by **Imago** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:20 pm

Uhm... Ok, got it!
Now I try to redraw the inbetween following your method!
Thanks Slowtiger!

*UPDATE!*

http://download159.mediafire.com/jkndje ... +v+5.6.swf

Here, how it is?
I've added the other head position, following the guideline, but there are something odd that I can't define... Uhm...

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Slow that's a great example.

Makes a lot of sense.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:11 pm

You'll find something like this in any book for animators. Know your profession! Get all information about your work! Read!

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:20 pm

Since I just got a new version of TVPaint to play with, I thought I'd illustrate what I meant. This is just raw animation, but you see the "top view" I used for reference, and how a head turn with consistant volume is easily constructed from that.

http://slowtiger.de/examples/turntest.html

ulrik · Post by **ulrik** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:20 am

slowtiger wrote:Since I just got a new version of TVPaint to play with, I thought I'd illustrate what I meant. This is just raw animation, but you see the "top view" I used for reference, and how a head turn with consistant volume is easily constructed from that.

http://slowtiger.de/examples/turntest.html

Thanks for the turntest, much informative!