Been using Animate Pro for a bit. Toon Boom provided us with a license with this pilot we're making.
Man...if Anime Studio had the same drawing tools as Toon Boom, it'd ROCK. Just noticing quite a few bugs in TB software, seems pretty buggy. But the frame-by-frame thing makes sense a bit, keyframes not so much, drawing swapping is GREAT (similar to AS' switch layers). Not sure if I can squash and stretch whilst maintaining volume like I do in AS.
Still though, big draw for me is the drawing tools. AS' drawing tools with a tablet I'm afraid to say...never really liked them.
Still though, I understand AS' way of doing things and have become comfortable with a workflow with it. TB, haven't yet figured it all out.
Haven't used the TB IK yet.
Toon Boom Animate Pro
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
ToonBoom Colouring
Mikdog,
I tried Toonboom software before and found a deal killer of a problem. When I color filled the line art created in ToonBoom, little and not so little corners of the drawing would not completely fill. Sometimes I would click in that corner several times and still not have color go all the way to the edges. This was taking so much time that I could work faster in Photoshop. Did this get fixed? I have written ToonBoom about this and never received a response.
The primary reason for my being interested in something like ToonBoom is in having lots of extra detail, more than would be practical in AS point to point animation. I actually found free Pencil software worked better for simple ink and paint.
I tried Toonboom software before and found a deal killer of a problem. When I color filled the line art created in ToonBoom, little and not so little corners of the drawing would not completely fill. Sometimes I would click in that corner several times and still not have color go all the way to the edges. This was taking so much time that I could work faster in Photoshop. Did this get fixed? I have written ToonBoom about this and never received a response.
The primary reason for my being interested in something like ToonBoom is in having lots of extra detail, more than would be practical in AS point to point animation. I actually found free Pencil software worked better for simple ink and paint.
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. My guess is you had gap filling enabled which would fill areas the software thought were gaps and leave blank spaces. I've run into that issue with the gap filling option enabled.
Pencil software...I think I looked at that but they didn't have a workable-enough Mac version. TB stuff is pretty expensive. Anyways. Thanks.
mike
Thanks for the reply. My guess is you had gap filling enabled which would fill areas the software thought were gaps and leave blank spaces. I've run into that issue with the gap filling option enabled.
Pencil software...I think I looked at that but they didn't have a workable-enough Mac version. TB stuff is pretty expensive. Anyways. Thanks.
mike
colouring
Thanks for the tip about gap filling. I may try the stand alone ink and paint module from ToonBoom. I use After Effects for all my camera moves and compositing, so I don't need an all-in-one app.
I'm on an Intel Apple with OS 4.11 (still). The key to Pencil is incremental saving with an incremental file name. It screws up when writing over an existing scene file. Also, if it looks like a key frame has jumped around by itself, it really hasn't. It's a bug with the GUI. This, of course, is maddening. However, if you keep working strait ahead, you'll generally be fine. For roughing out keyframes, I still like it better than anything I've ever used. The other big issue is large frame sizes. You have to import a PNG file with a border before you render the scene. That border will keep the file at 720, 1080, etc.
If those three issues were fixed, Pencil would be worth paying for. I don't understand Pascal and the other programmer's reasonings, but maybe someday they will get back to work on this.
I'm on an Intel Apple with OS 4.11 (still). The key to Pencil is incremental saving with an incremental file name. It screws up when writing over an existing scene file. Also, if it looks like a key frame has jumped around by itself, it really hasn't. It's a bug with the GUI. This, of course, is maddening. However, if you keep working strait ahead, you'll generally be fine. For roughing out keyframes, I still like it better than anything I've ever used. The other big issue is large frame sizes. You have to import a PNG file with a border before you render the scene. That border will keep the file at 720, 1080, etc.
If those three issues were fixed, Pencil would be worth paying for. I don't understand Pascal and the other programmer's reasonings, but maybe someday they will get back to work on this.
Ah, confusing this with some other software. Thanks, I'm downloading it now.
EDIT - looks pretty good but the inability to show more than just the onionskin of the before and after drawing would trouble me I think, unless there is a way to do it? Drawing tools feel nice and interface and clean and uncluttered. Nice! Thanks.
EDIT - looks pretty good but the inability to show more than just the onionskin of the before and after drawing would trouble me I think, unless there is a way to do it? Drawing tools feel nice and interface and clean and uncluttered. Nice! Thanks.
Link
Just to make sure, here's the link:
http://www.pencil-animation.org/
ToonBoom question: I'm sticking with ASPro for 2D bones. However, if I did get a copy of ToonBoom, which do you think would have the best ink and paint, Studio or Pencil Check Pro? Pencil Check is working much better than the Studio demo from a couple of years ago.
http://www.pencil-animation.org/
ToonBoom question: I'm sticking with ASPro for 2D bones. However, if I did get a copy of ToonBoom, which do you think would have the best ink and paint, Studio or Pencil Check Pro? Pencil Check is working much better than the Studio demo from a couple of years ago.
I can't speak for Studio or Pencil Check Pro, only ever used Animate and Animate Pro (well, I used Studio maybe once or twice but didn't have a chance to make a decision on it). I think they've upgraded the drawing tools. I spoke to a guy who said he used Studio and the drawing tools he found iffy compared to what I was doing with Animate. So maybe those upgrades carried over to Pencil Check? That's just speculation.
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meltedtoons
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:06 am
Slow response
Oh man, I post some questions on the Toon Boom forums, really basic questions about drawing in their apps. It's like I'm writing in Latin. No responses are forthcoming. For such a small market share, the AS world seems more (sorry, but I can't help it) animated.
Yep. Much better luck on these forums. I used the TB software for a TV ad recently and it worked great. Did some frame by frame stuff, the multi-plane camera's super because you can push objects back in the Z plane whilst maintaining their size in the scene - something AS might want to include in future releases.
Otherwise, I like AS's cycling options way better.
TB doesn't have the option to maintain volume while squashing and stretching along either x or y axis. AS does.
If AS somehow acquired Toon Boom's drawing tools it'd rock so hard.
I'll repeat that:
If AS somehow acquired Toon Boom's drawing tools it'd rock so hard.
Otherwise, I like AS's cycling options way better.
TB doesn't have the option to maintain volume while squashing and stretching along either x or y axis. AS does.
If AS somehow acquired Toon Boom's drawing tools it'd rock so hard.
I'll repeat that:
If AS somehow acquired Toon Boom's drawing tools it'd rock so hard.
Consider that the Toon Boom Animate boards are basically a single layer (ie: no 'categories'), and it's intended for professional users. It's not the most friendly format, and there aren't a lot of users attending. 'Pros' don't have the time, for the most part.
Semi-pro, and amateurs, like a good part of the population around here-generally have more time to spend on discussion. More than that, though, There are a number of personalities here that make it a nicer place to hang around. Toon Boom forums have never been particularly active.
I saw your question about Pencil Check (don't know the answer, never used it). Animate has nice drawing tools. I've been very happy with it. You should just download the demo version and start using it. What else did you want to know?
Semi-pro, and amateurs, like a good part of the population around here-generally have more time to spend on discussion. More than that, though, There are a number of personalities here that make it a nicer place to hang around. Toon Boom forums have never been particularly active.
I saw your question about Pencil Check (don't know the answer, never used it). Animate has nice drawing tools. I've been very happy with it. You should just download the demo version and start using it. What else did you want to know?
drawing tool
Mikedog, you're so right when you're so right.
There seems to be a philosophical issue going back to the Moho days. I mean the AS approach is completely honest and out in the open in it NOT being a frame by frame app. That said, it would be a lot easier to do more detailed work if there were a direct way to draw 'through' a transition to another pose, without having to feel like I was calculating rocket trajectory.
Maybe there is. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most mechanically minded. I've, however, also got a lot of company.
DM, I was hoping that 'staff' could also provide answers (I mean it wasn't even a Canadian holiday). I frankly don't need the whole animate package. I'm really comfortable using my existing license of After Effects. Is Toon Boom's camera better? Maybe I will have to download the whole thing just to check if there's any difference in the drawing tools.
As to time allowed for pro users, it's a holiday schedule for most in the US, but I've worked enough all-nighers in a row to hear you. I've had the opportunity to run a couple of days worth of maintenance routines on my main machine, hence all my yakking.
There seems to be a philosophical issue going back to the Moho days. I mean the AS approach is completely honest and out in the open in it NOT being a frame by frame app. That said, it would be a lot easier to do more detailed work if there were a direct way to draw 'through' a transition to another pose, without having to feel like I was calculating rocket trajectory.
Maybe there is. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most mechanically minded. I've, however, also got a lot of company.
DM, I was hoping that 'staff' could also provide answers (I mean it wasn't even a Canadian holiday). I frankly don't need the whole animate package. I'm really comfortable using my existing license of After Effects. Is Toon Boom's camera better? Maybe I will have to download the whole thing just to check if there's any difference in the drawing tools.
As to time allowed for pro users, it's a holiday schedule for most in the US, but I've worked enough all-nighers in a row to hear you. I've had the opportunity to run a couple of days worth of maintenance routines on my main machine, hence all my yakking.
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Squeakydave
- Posts: 328
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:44 pm
- Location: UK - London-ish
- Contact:
Mikedog
Hmm. Just 'upgraded' to AS6 for the gradient tools and they seem much worse than V5 (in which they are usable for animation.) especially when exported to flash (Which is what I need at the moment)
I'm looking at Animate for the IK tools. As its colour handling and gradients seem FAR superior and my work kind of relies on that. Have you tried the IK at all. If so what do you think?
Hmm. Just 'upgraded' to AS6 for the gradient tools and they seem much worse than V5 (in which they are usable for animation.) especially when exported to flash (Which is what I need at the moment)
I'm looking at Animate for the IK tools. As its colour handling and gradients seem FAR superior and my work kind of relies on that. Have you tried the IK at all. If so what do you think?
Hi,
Yep. Flash and AS seem to go together like oil and water from my experience.
Colour handling is great in Toon Boom. You kind of make one palette and name colours like line, eyes, pupils, skin etc... Any changes you make to that palette will affect the whole scene. Likewise you can import a palette and all colours'll change as long as they've been coded to the right zones I think. I'm still a bit new at Toon Boom so can't really speak with much certainty but from what I've read in the manual looks like its really geared towards a largish pipeline with someone able to make changes pretty easily to a whole range of scenes from a master palette.
Can't speak for the IK as I haven't tried it properly.
The network view is pretty awesome. You can group layers in ways you can't with a linear stacking order.
The drawing tools are awesome. Works really well with a Cintiq. Very nice. The gradients in TB work as you'd expect them to I guess.
The export quality's also really good in TB and the camera moves are very smooth. You can also edit movements, including camera moves, on a graph editor with bezier handles which is nice for easing.
As far as the animation tools, I prefer AS' but maybe because I'm used to them. TB doesn't have AS' neat cycling tools nor the ability to squash and stretch while maintaining volume.
Toon Boom's pretty pricey though. You might try the PLE for a while before deciding. We recently had a guy come and give us some training which was informative.
Yep. Flash and AS seem to go together like oil and water from my experience.
Colour handling is great in Toon Boom. You kind of make one palette and name colours like line, eyes, pupils, skin etc... Any changes you make to that palette will affect the whole scene. Likewise you can import a palette and all colours'll change as long as they've been coded to the right zones I think. I'm still a bit new at Toon Boom so can't really speak with much certainty but from what I've read in the manual looks like its really geared towards a largish pipeline with someone able to make changes pretty easily to a whole range of scenes from a master palette.
Can't speak for the IK as I haven't tried it properly.
The network view is pretty awesome. You can group layers in ways you can't with a linear stacking order.
The drawing tools are awesome. Works really well with a Cintiq. Very nice. The gradients in TB work as you'd expect them to I guess.
The export quality's also really good in TB and the camera moves are very smooth. You can also edit movements, including camera moves, on a graph editor with bezier handles which is nice for easing.
As far as the animation tools, I prefer AS' but maybe because I'm used to them. TB doesn't have AS' neat cycling tools nor the ability to squash and stretch while maintaining volume.
Toon Boom's pretty pricey though. You might try the PLE for a while before deciding. We recently had a guy come and give us some training which was informative.