Character's Arms at side position makes things difficult

[Mylenthes]

Im making an animation and my character when at a rest position with his arms at his side looks like this:


How do I make that position work with bones

OR

How do I make it good with point animation because im not good at it (harder option)

Thanks

[lwaxana]

I like your character! :D

This is how I would do it because I like a continuous line between joints. With this method, all the shapes are one layer and they're connected. The different colors used are just to show where the different shapes are. When you're done setting up the shapes, you can make them all the same color. But the extra shapes allow the arms to overlap the legs and head.

The bones are connected with point binding. Most of the points are bound to the main body bone (including the crotch, armpits, and shoulders). But the points in the "hands" and arms are attached to the arm bones. And the "feet" are attached to the leg bones.

The problem with this method is that the lines often get weird gaps where the shapes meet. But this should help with gaps issues: viewtopic.php?t=15758

Of course, there are probably lots of ways to do this. This is the basic principle I use on most of my joints, though. Have fun! :D

EDIT: Wait a sec. You may not even need the shoulder shape. Let me think about this for a minute.

[Mylenthes]

Thank you!

very helpful

Edit: I have another Q

In that same character how can i make the legs cross without white appearing?

[lwaxana]

Okay, yes. You do need the shoulder shape. Otherwise the shoulder lines will curve and you won't have anything to cover it up.

[Mylenthes]

Actually i was talking about the legs, but thanks.

And can you answer Q for legs?

EDIT: oh wow sorry, you answered the question.

Dont mind what I said above

[lwaxana]

Hmm... it depends on what you're going to do with the legs.

If one needs to overlap the other, you'll need to apply the same technique at the crotch as at the shoulders.

But! If they need to overlap each other (changing which one is on top) then this won't work at all because they're all on the same layer. You would need to have the legs on separate layers.

Haha, yeah. sorry. I shouldn't be recommending this to others when I'm still experimenting with it.

This tutorial shows the regular way: http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/manual/t ... index.html

might want to combine that way with point binding: http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/manual/t ... index.html

leg setup using my kooky method (can't animate which leg is in front):
[edit: image removed]

[lwaxana]

[edit: image removed]

Here's a method that should work for the legs. So the legs would be on separate layers. The top points of the leg (the crotch, and the outside hip point) would be in the same spot as crotch and hip points on the torso layer. Those points all get bound to the torso bone regardless of which layer they're on. The other points on the leg layers get bound to the leg bone. With the separate layers, you can change the layer order of the legs when he's walking.

BTW--Thanks for getting me thinking about this. This might change the way I do some of my rigging.

[Mylenthes]

What is a good leg rig for a horse like creature?

I just want it to have a nice bend and stuff but cant get it to work.

[lwaxana]

The mandcon arm rig is really nice for elbows and knees:

viewtopic.php?t=15478&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

[Mylenthes]

Thanks! will this work if the points are connected to a body?

Well I can make it work seperated easily but it would be nice if it worked connected.

I guess i can just try myself and see if it works

EDIT: Connecting it is hard to make it work and separating it does not work out well. I am starting to get frustrated

[lwaxana]

For a horse, I would go with point binding across layers for the joint where the leg meets the body. But some of the legs won't need a continuous line with the body. Those will be easier. :D

I think this image sums it up, so I'm going to remove the others. :)

[edit] I guess I'll leave the ones with the shoulder shapes so that this thread still makes sense.

[neeters_guy]

Shows the importance of planning ahead when point binding and shape ordering. I hadn't actually thought about using bones to control points/shapes between layers, but it's so obvious now.

Good work, lwaxana.

[lwaxana]

Thanks Neetersguy. Yeah, it does seem obvious! I bet there are folks out there who just assumed binding between layers was possible and have used it all along. But I've never seen it discussed or explained before.

Actually, what made me realize this was trying to copy your application of the mandcon rig to a wrist. I made a wrist and then wanted switchable hands, so I put the hands on separate layers. And it worked like a charm even in the middle of an mandcon joint! But I didn't realize that it could help with hips and shoulders until now. I wish I'd have realized sooner because hips and shoulders have been driving me crazy for as long as I've used AS.

I just tried this on a more complex character and the continuous lines work perfectly. Of course it doesn't work miracles--I still had to use a lot of the other wacky bone setups and in extreme poses I'll need to clean up the points. But overall, this improves my rig substantially with continuous lines, animate-able layer order, and psuedo-switching (via layer visibility).