I recently advertised my cartoon on another forum, and everyone called it terrible. When i deleted the videos, everyone who posted said "awww, now i can't laugh and scold at him", and I feel down because no one likes them, except some on this forum.
I know they aren't very good, but they all seem to think that being 15 doesn't alter the fact that they could be really good, especially when you have lots of school work.
How do I get people to like my cartoons? The visual style is simple, crudely drawn and animated quickly.
... get people to like my cartoons?
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
You can't "get" people to like anything. I'm creating films since 1977 and still haven't found the magic formula to instant success. Some ideas work, others don't. Some stuff I think is hilarious goes by nearly unnoticed. Something I think too primitive causes cheers and applause.
The most important ingredients seem to be ideas (story/dialogue) and timing. Everything else is optional. Artwork can be crude, animation jerky. But one thing is unforgiveable: being sloppy. There's no excuse for that. Don't say "but I didn't have enough time because of homework". Who forced you to do the film in only one hour, or one evening? Take the time it takes, and give your best. Eventually this will pay.
(Many short films of about 5 - 10 min are produced in more than a year, eben with many people involved. Personally, that's too long for me, so I concentrate on small projects which I can finish all by myself in less than 6 months.)
The most important ingredients seem to be ideas (story/dialogue) and timing. Everything else is optional. Artwork can be crude, animation jerky. But one thing is unforgiveable: being sloppy. There's no excuse for that. Don't say "but I didn't have enough time because of homework". Who forced you to do the film in only one hour, or one evening? Take the time it takes, and give your best. Eventually this will pay.
(Many short films of about 5 - 10 min are produced in more than a year, eben with many people involved. Personally, that's too long for me, so I concentrate on small projects which I can finish all by myself in less than 6 months.)
Great to post at Lostmarble, its nice talking to intelligent, decent people.
Thanks for the advice. The only reason I make them really fast is because I want to try and respond to current events, kind of like South Park does, and thats the only effective way I can do that. But I suppose you are correct about the writing & storyline, thanks a heap for the advice.
I will never post on another forum again
Thanks for the advice. The only reason I make them really fast is because I want to try and respond to current events, kind of like South Park does, and thats the only effective way I can do that. But I suppose you are correct about the writing & storyline, thanks a heap for the advice.
I will never post on another forum again
You can't convince people to like your cartoons, drawings or anything else. Ok, It's not correct for me that people purely mock your works. It would be better if they look at what is good and try to spur you on how to emprove them. Anyway, You can't make good things working too quick. Drawing request time, You have to plan and often stop and reflect on what you're doing. Maybe you work under a creative flow, so you think it's hard to do. Do you know sketches? You first sketch and put on paper all ideas, then start the real work, no matter how long it takes.
Thanks so much to all of you, your being a great help.
I am currently planning a 10-minute (approx) film for release 25 May, and I've written my first draft, and am going to finish it off towards the end of this/start of next month. Do you think this would be good idea, or should I work on it a bit more? Only reason being I have all these massive assignments all due at the same time, so thats why I'm doing it like that.
Again, thanks for your help. These are more of a "having fun with friends" by making videos, than actually trying to do it professionally, if you get what I mean.
I am currently planning a 10-minute (approx) film for release 25 May, and I've written my first draft, and am going to finish it off towards the end of this/start of next month. Do you think this would be good idea, or should I work on it a bit more? Only reason being I have all these massive assignments all due at the same time, so thats why I'm doing it like that.
Again, thanks for your help. These are more of a "having fun with friends" by making videos, than actually trying to do it professionally, if you get what I mean.
The word "amateur" is often used as a kind of insult, but it shouldn't be. It means "lover", that you love your subject, and that's never a bad thing. Someone once asked a famous animator how he got into the business. He said, "Well, it's kinda like prostitution. First, I did it to please myself. Then I did it to please my friends. Finally, I did it for money". You are still at the "pleasing yourself and friends" stage!
As slowtiger says, the only crime is being sloppy. Find out what you can -- the internet is a great source. I just googled "cartoon drawing animation tutorials" and got 5 million hits! Not all of them are going to be useful, but it's still a great place to start. If you have the funds, buy the Richard Williams book, "Animator's Survival Kit". It's a wonderful source of reference material. And you just have to keep at it, and develop a thicker skin. If criticism hurts, make sure your next film makes them eat their words!
As slowtiger says, the only crime is being sloppy. Find out what you can -- the internet is a great source. I just googled "cartoon drawing animation tutorials" and got 5 million hits! Not all of them are going to be useful, but it's still a great place to start. If you have the funds, buy the Richard Williams book, "Animator's Survival Kit". It's a wonderful source of reference material. And you just have to keep at it, and develop a thicker skin. If criticism hurts, make sure your next film makes them eat their words!
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
It's all about the ideas/story and how the story is translated to an audio-visual experience.
I just started reading Directing the Story by Francis Glebas last night. He uses the reverse-engineering approach, where you start with what the audience wants (to feel good, to find meaning, to feel alive) and then use that knowledge to create an experience for them.
I guess the big commercial film makers put great importance on what the audience wants because that's how they get their money. But I really think it's important in any situation where your goal is to reach your audience. Even if you're using your film to argue a point or to teach something.
I just started reading Directing the Story by Francis Glebas last night. He uses the reverse-engineering approach, where you start with what the audience wants (to feel good, to find meaning, to feel alive) and then use that knowledge to create an experience for them.
I guess the big commercial film makers put great importance on what the audience wants because that's how they get their money. But I really think it's important in any situation where your goal is to reach your audience. Even if you're using your film to argue a point or to teach something.
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SpaceBoy64
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Do only 5 seconds of animation, the best you can. See how long it takes. Adjust your 10 minute project to be only 3 to 6 months. And then work on only one. Spend 2 to 4 hours each day. After 4 I get burned out. Take one day off a week away from even thinking about the project.I am currently planning a 10-minute (approx) film for release 25 May, and I've written my first draft, and am going to finish it off towards the end of this/start of next month. Do you think this would be good idea, or should I work on it a bit more? Only reason being I have all these massive assignments all due at the same time, so thats why I'm doing it like that.
Animation is hard work, and good is even harder.
Dale
Orson Welles has something to say about it:
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commen ... ience.html
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commen ... ience.html
Slowtiger--Thanks for sharing that interview. 
I always thought that reaching an audience was about meeting them half way. So for example, if they hate frogs, but you want them to love frogs, then you need to address a hatred of frogs from the beginning. Then you can gradually show why frogs are great and why loving frogs is great. If you start with loving frogs, the audience will resist the entire film. Sorry for the dumb example. lol This is really a general communication issue -- even linguists study it. You don't have to compromise on what you're saying, but the way you say it must depend on where the audience is coming from.
I think this approach would correspond with the "seduction" Orson Welles was talking about. It's wooing the audience. So perhaps wooing isn't necessary if the audience already likes the ideas being presented, like in the Johnny Carson example. But I'm really curious what Welles means by "raping" the audience! I wish he'd have talked more about that.
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oh, by the way, I have read more of Directing The Story since I last posted and it is really a great book on this very topic. He talks a lot about what people are thinking as they watch a film and how to engage (seduce?) them with techniques like raising narrative questions and delaying the answers. He even relates this to hypnosis techniques.
My only complaint is that it's not set up as a reference book. He tries to get you to read the whole book in order by putting a story throughout it that demonstrates the points. But the topics are not in a logical order for me. The book is mostly about storyboarding, but a lot of the information is useful for writing the script. I wish all the script information was together at the beginning of the book and then followed by the information on composition and story boarding. Maybe I'll put in sticky notes to mark the different sections after I've read through it once.
I always thought that reaching an audience was about meeting them half way. So for example, if they hate frogs, but you want them to love frogs, then you need to address a hatred of frogs from the beginning. Then you can gradually show why frogs are great and why loving frogs is great. If you start with loving frogs, the audience will resist the entire film. Sorry for the dumb example. lol This is really a general communication issue -- even linguists study it. You don't have to compromise on what you're saying, but the way you say it must depend on where the audience is coming from.
I think this approach would correspond with the "seduction" Orson Welles was talking about. It's wooing the audience. So perhaps wooing isn't necessary if the audience already likes the ideas being presented, like in the Johnny Carson example. But I'm really curious what Welles means by "raping" the audience! I wish he'd have talked more about that.
----
oh, by the way, I have read more of Directing The Story since I last posted and it is really a great book on this very topic. He talks a lot about what people are thinking as they watch a film and how to engage (seduce?) them with techniques like raising narrative questions and delaying the answers. He even relates this to hypnosis techniques.
My only complaint is that it's not set up as a reference book. He tries to get you to read the whole book in order by putting a story throughout it that demonstrates the points. But the topics are not in a logical order for me. The book is mostly about storyboarding, but a lot of the information is useful for writing the script. I wish all the script information was together at the beginning of the book and then followed by the information on composition and story boarding. Maybe I'll put in sticky notes to mark the different sections after I've read through it once.
Well, your animation is a way of communicating and finding approval. You need to know your audiance (your freinds for instance) usually they have something they like or dont like, But honestly the highschool years are a tough time. Some teenagers are going through a time when they feel empowered through negative criticism... So you have a tough audiance (my personal opinion). My son is 18, and he is always talking negatvely about alot of things, but these things usually work themselves out through maturity.wolldo wrote:Thanks so much to all of you, your being a great help.
I am currently planning a 10-minute (approx) film for release 25 May, and I've written my first draft, and am going to finish it off towards the end of this/start of next month. Do you think this would be good idea, or should I work on it a bit more? Only reason being I have all these massive assignments all due at the same time, so thats why I'm doing it like that.
Again, thanks for your help. These are more of a "having fun with friends" by making videos, than actually trying to do it professionally, if you get what I mean.
I think if you like animation as a form of expressing yourself, then do just that... Express Yourself. What are "You" about? Start there... Not everyone will approve of your expression. I spent alot of time as Nerdy guy in highschool, and I refused to change because thats how I felt about things. These days alot of people think I'm a pretty interesting character, but really im still just a nerdy guy. My interests are what I convey in my animation, and thats all that matters. If someone likes it then thats great. If someone doesnt like it, then I listen to what they say. Then I decide is this a real criticism, or someone with empowerment issues?
Thats a great piece. very true!slowtiger wrote:Orson Welles has something to say about it:
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commen ... ience.html