For an establishing shot at the start of the film I want to rotate partly around a house (not this one) so I experimented on this to see if it would work. I'm not clever enough to create it all in 3D in AS so I settled for having the sides of the house, window ledges, steps etc hidden in the front view and revealed as it turned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxHx655H-_8
Flea House Turn
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
-
neeters_guy
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:33 pm
- Contact:
Very nice! So this was all drawn on one plane? It seems like you're doing all the things I want to do! hehe I'm planning to use 3D models as references for some things, but for more organic shapes like tree trunks, a technique like this might work better. I thought about creating basic 3D house shapes using vector drawings positioned in space and then using those as references for a drawing on a single plane. Did you use any reference or just a good spatial/artistic sense?
Neeters_Guy - Thanks for the comments. No it's not an imported 3D object. Well spotted on the posts, lantern and flower pot....except I didn't set them to face camera as the camera isn't moving apart from a slight zoom in. I just translated those items but yes they would've looked like that had they been set to face camera 
How it was done? I created the front of the house. I then created the side on the same layer. I joined the side to the front at the corner that faces the camera. I had to think about all the sides of shapes on the front that would appear when the house turns such as the edge of the window ledges and steps. I added those shapes (joined to the other shapes of the window sill etc) and tucked them in behind.
The side was scaled horizontally and concealed behind the front. For the turn I scaled the front horizontally and I think I used the perspective tool a bit aswell. I pulled out the side from behind the front and scaled it up. I dragged out all the side shapes for the steps and window ledges etc and tweaked the points into position. I obviously had to be very careful with shape ordering. It's not perfect as it is.
That's about it. I could have animated the flowers, lantern and posts too.
Genete - I think I agree with you. There's something a bit synthetic and sterile about perfect 3D CG rotations.
Iwaxana - Yes it's all on one plane. I didn't use any reference and I'm sure it's far from perfect, perspective wise, but I didn't aim for it to be perfect anyway. If you want to see the AS file let me know. As long as I don't see the house in everyones films as I want it to be in mine
How it was done? I created the front of the house. I then created the side on the same layer. I joined the side to the front at the corner that faces the camera. I had to think about all the sides of shapes on the front that would appear when the house turns such as the edge of the window ledges and steps. I added those shapes (joined to the other shapes of the window sill etc) and tucked them in behind.
The side was scaled horizontally and concealed behind the front. For the turn I scaled the front horizontally and I think I used the perspective tool a bit aswell. I pulled out the side from behind the front and scaled it up. I dragged out all the side shapes for the steps and window ledges etc and tweaked the points into position. I obviously had to be very careful with shape ordering. It's not perfect as it is.
That's about it. I could have animated the flowers, lantern and posts too.
Genete - I think I agree with you. There's something a bit synthetic and sterile about perfect 3D CG rotations.
Iwaxana - Yes it's all on one plane. I didn't use any reference and I'm sure it's far from perfect, perspective wise, but I didn't aim for it to be perfect anyway. If you want to see the AS file let me know. As long as I don't see the house in everyones films as I want it to be in mine
-
neeters_guy
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:33 pm
- Contact:
I've been working on exactly the same fake-3D technique for an object in my Work In Progress, but I gave up for two reasons: it became far too difficult for the object I needed (it had a criss-crossing curve in it), and the creative alchemy involved made it difficult to reuse in more than one setting.
But I'm mentioning this because I have some thoughts and tips that haven't been mentioned...maybe you've discovered some of these things too, AmigaMan, or you found ways to overcome them!
* First, why do everything on a single flat layer instead of using multiple 3D-oriented flat layers, as in the "cube" example in the tutorials? Because instead of moving layers around and making sure they stick together, you can simply transpose points...and AS automatically 'tweens those transpositions. By moving your points to create seven or eight actions -- one for each angle of rotation -- Anime Studio does the rest.
* Errrr, not quite. You can't change shape order during an animation, so shapes end up moving in front of or behind each other as the points transpose.
* If you can't change shape order, how can you dynamically move shapes in your layer in front of or behind each other? By setting their fill and stroke transparencies, either 0% or 100%, with step keyframes. You can create "left side" and "right side" shapes which use exactly the same points, but give them different shape orders. When they rotate to a point where their shape orders become scrambled, just make one transparent and the other opaque.
* But this works poorly for curved objects that overlap. Such objects need to be divided up into many smaller objects and you do so much dancing around making them opaque and transparent that you lose track of what you're doing...and even then the result isn't perfect. So unless there's a better method I can't see this sort of object being feasible (PS: the same thing would happen when using multiple 2D layers in 3D space, ala the Cube).
* Gradients are also difficult, and need to be individually tweaked as the points transpose. So does line curvature, which doesn't automatically lend itself to "fake 3D" and often loops back on itself in a strange way.
* YOU MUST NAME YOUR SHAPES. With so many inner and outer shapes, and so many shapes being moved around behind the scenes, the only way to select them is with the Shapes drop-down.
* Actually transposing the points is easy enough, especially if you use the grid. Run through the animation multiple times, looking at a different line each time. If it looks odd or doesn't flow properly when it reaches a new action, tweak the points a bit.
I'm amazed at the results I got -- and even more amazed by the Flea house! -- but I despaired of ever getting it PERFECT. The technique, in my opinion, is sort of like trying to pick up a ball of mud: you think you're holding it all, and then you see a bit leaking out, so you adjust your grip and that just causes a leak somewhere else, and so on.
Not to mention that each additional slice of rotation adds enormous complexity to an already complex layer...
Cheers,
Muffy.
But I'm mentioning this because I have some thoughts and tips that haven't been mentioned...maybe you've discovered some of these things too, AmigaMan, or you found ways to overcome them!
* First, why do everything on a single flat layer instead of using multiple 3D-oriented flat layers, as in the "cube" example in the tutorials? Because instead of moving layers around and making sure they stick together, you can simply transpose points...and AS automatically 'tweens those transpositions. By moving your points to create seven or eight actions -- one for each angle of rotation -- Anime Studio does the rest.
* Errrr, not quite. You can't change shape order during an animation, so shapes end up moving in front of or behind each other as the points transpose.
* If you can't change shape order, how can you dynamically move shapes in your layer in front of or behind each other? By setting their fill and stroke transparencies, either 0% or 100%, with step keyframes. You can create "left side" and "right side" shapes which use exactly the same points, but give them different shape orders. When they rotate to a point where their shape orders become scrambled, just make one transparent and the other opaque.
* But this works poorly for curved objects that overlap. Such objects need to be divided up into many smaller objects and you do so much dancing around making them opaque and transparent that you lose track of what you're doing...and even then the result isn't perfect. So unless there's a better method I can't see this sort of object being feasible (PS: the same thing would happen when using multiple 2D layers in 3D space, ala the Cube).
* Gradients are also difficult, and need to be individually tweaked as the points transpose. So does line curvature, which doesn't automatically lend itself to "fake 3D" and often loops back on itself in a strange way.
* YOU MUST NAME YOUR SHAPES. With so many inner and outer shapes, and so many shapes being moved around behind the scenes, the only way to select them is with the Shapes drop-down.
* Actually transposing the points is easy enough, especially if you use the grid. Run through the animation multiple times, looking at a different line each time. If it looks odd or doesn't flow properly when it reaches a new action, tweak the points a bit.
I'm amazed at the results I got -- and even more amazed by the Flea house! -- but I despaired of ever getting it PERFECT. The technique, in my opinion, is sort of like trying to pick up a ball of mud: you think you're holding it all, and then you see a bit leaking out, so you adjust your grip and that just causes a leak somewhere else, and so on.
Not to mention that each additional slice of rotation adds enormous complexity to an already complex layer...
Cheers,
Muffy.
Hi Muffysb. I'd like to see the results you got.
Had I have had the items on separate layers then I could've animated the layer order but, in this instance, there was no need as it was only a part rotation and the ordering didn't change. I found it easier to have everything on the one layer so I could select the whole of the side of the house and manipulate it at once. There were only two key frames. One for all points at the start of the animation and another on the last frame. You know what?....I didn't even name the shapes in most cases
I selected the shapes by locating one point, which is usually quite easy to do, and just hitting the tab key to select all connected points. When I do the actual establishing shot I will take more care However, at least I'm confident that it should work now.
Had I have had the items on separate layers then I could've animated the layer order but, in this instance, there was no need as it was only a part rotation and the ordering didn't change. I found it easier to have everything on the one layer so I could select the whole of the side of the house and manipulate it at once. There were only two key frames. One for all points at the start of the animation and another on the last frame. You know what?....I didn't even name the shapes in most cases
I selected the shapes by locating one point, which is usually quite easy to do, and just hitting the tab key to select all connected points. When I do the actual establishing shot I will take more care However, at least I'm confident that it should work now.
-
Víctor Paredes
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5814
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:18 am
- Location: Barcelona/Chile
- Contact:
(Nice avatar, baker 
)
I really like the house. There is just one detail you could fix. On the transition between the two poses, the house looks thinner than it should. I know it's part of that unperfected 3d we all like, but even then it looks weird for my taste.
I like this new wave of 3d things in AS we are looking on forum. It really reflect the potential of the software. AS is not flat! great.
)I really like the house. There is just one detail you could fix. On the transition between the two poses, the house looks thinner than it should. I know it's part of that unperfected 3d we all like, but even then it looks weird for my taste.
I like this new wave of 3d things in AS we are looking on forum. It really reflect the potential of the software. AS is not flat! great.
Moho co-owner
Previously Rigged animation supervisor: My father's dragon, Wolfwalkers & Star Wars Visions "Screecher's Reach"
My personal Youtube Channel
Thanks and yes, I also like seeing some of the 3D concepts on this forum. It's always nice to see how someone went beyond the usual flatter 2D methods. Which isn't bad but it sure does add a little extra eye candy.selgin wrote:(Nice avatar, baker
I like this new wave of 3d things in AS we are looking on forum. It really reflect the potential of the software. AS is not flat! great.
-
christopherjd
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:58 pm
- Location: Lancaster UK
- Contact:
-
christopherjd
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:58 pm
- Location: Lancaster UK
- Contact: