Why I love inking in AS

[funksmaname]

One amazing feature of AS is the variable width tool. The fact that you can make lines thick and thin with precise control is something I've not found in any other vector based program... there is a way using pressure sensitivity in illustrator, but that doesn't create 'lines' made of very few dots so is hard to edit. also, i find that using pressure sensitivity for precise control is really difficult - while numerically choosing thicknesses at any point is just quick and precise.

Here is something I just did for a logo for a 'home chef' client... I enjoy working with AS as I traced a pencil drawing, then was able to push and pull things around till i was happy.



Although this was created for a still image, the added bonus is that I can now very easily create animation with it! Another thing no other program offers

The only thing i miss, and it is a BIGGY unfortunately, is EPS/Ai output. I can only really use this to export hi-rez raster artwork rather than vector which seems kinda strange. I tried exporting to swf, and then to ai, but in flash, any shapes that have cutouts (like the glasses frames) lose their fills... also, when taking it to illustrator all the colours went poo.

[PARKER]

You are totally right, the variable width tool is amazing and very usefull.
Your character design looks great, add some shading and will look even better .

[heyvern]

Funny Story Time:

I used Moho and then Anime Studio for a very long time. So long in fact I totally forgot how to use Adobe Illustrator. I too did the "SWF to AI" for eps usage. Any color changes I just fixed in AI.

Eventually I was forced to crack open AI again and use it for something or other. It had been so long since I used it that I spent at least an hour trying to find on the web and in the documentation how to do variable line widths in Illustrator. I was absolutely certain you could do it in AI that I wasted a ton of time trying to find it. Then I wanted to create connected shapes with different fills. Once again I was certain that AI had that ability; shapes with shared edges like in AS.

Eventually I realized it was all a dream. I couldn't do either of those things in Illustrator. I was so frustrated at that point I closed AI and did my work in AS, exported to SWF opened in Flash, exported to AI, cleaned up and adjusted colors in AI. Extra work but "mindless" work. Doing the creative work in AS was worth the extra effort.

-vern

[funksmaname]

Thanks parker
I had started to ad a bit of soft shading but as I planned to use it as a logo i thought this might over complicate things... although some hard shading might work well, i might try it

Vern, its true, i think that 'boolean' shapes, shape fill order (rather than shape stack order), width per point, and the way shapes can share lines are huge features that nothing else offers - it just takes some getting your head around, sort of like a parallel dimension if you're used to illustrator - but it saves on a LOT of work to achieve the same results...

...but why isn't there better EPS support? any ideas? The main things that didnt transfer are the 'boolean shapes' and gradient fills... and being able to predictibly export colours would be a huge time saver as well.

[heyvern]

...but why isn't there better EPS support? any ideas? The main things that didnt transfer are the 'boolean shapes' and gradient fills... and being able to predictibly export colours would be a huge time saver as well.

The color issue has been a bother for some people for a while. Especially importing AI content. Having worked with "digital color conversions" going on 25 years now I know what a crap shoot it is to have consistent colors between two or more different applications

As for the boolean shapes not converting... that's a new one I think. Does the SWF from AS open in Flash with the boolean or compound shapes intact? Or are they lost when going from Flash to EPS or AI?

I hadn't encountered that one when I used the SWF to AI conversion work flow in the past. I was using an OLD version of both Flash and AI, pre "CS" versions. The problems I had were with variable line widths converting. Since AI doesn't support variable line widths it would use a stroke and then put "shapes" on the ends of the strokes for tapered stroke ends I used.

Exporting directly to EPS from AS I think might be possible using scripting. I am pretty sure of this but not 100% certain. In the past I was able to open old versions of AI files in a text editor to fix them. However AI format is now based entirely on PDF. This would require writing a "binary" file format. I'm not sure that PDF is "ascii" based. Even so this can be done using the Lua scripting language available in AS. Lua has the ability to create binary file formats. As long as you get everything correctly written to the file it should open.

Maybe the key here would be to write a REALLY REALLY OLD simple version of an EPS or AI file format. Like I said I use to edit AI files directly with a text editor. If that can be done than converting AS to EPS should be possible.

However it would be a MAJOR undertaking taking into account the huge differences between the two formats. Shapes with shared edges would have to be "duplicated" into separate shapes. Curves won't be an issue because the "default" curves used in AS should convert without any trouble to AI format (it's the OTHER direction that is hard). The reason AI doesn't convert to AS as well is because of the curve handles. AS doesn't have the ability to change the curve handles on opposite sides of a point. Going the OTHER way should be easier... I think.

(I did some rudimentary experiments converting AS to SVG with very modest results. Not usable though but it kind of worked. I was able to convert a single shape of a vector layer with fill/stroke color and "peaked" points to SVG out put. I haven't figured out how to convert AS point curvature to SVG curves yet.)

-vern

[funksmaname]

Thanks for the info Vern,
Strangely enough the boolean shapes just came through as unfilled lines in flash. Also the glasses lens gradient didn't come through...
I wouldn't have thought keeping colours between programs was such a big issue? can't they just carry the RGB ref?

Anyway - even if I have to export high res raster, i'm no worse off than if I'd used photoshop.

[heyvern]

I wouldn't have thought keeping colours between programs was such a big issue? can't they just carry the RGB ref?

Well yes and no. The rgb can be transferred but every application may have a different way of displaying or storing the color. Another issue is how some applications define colors. For example if RGB is defined by percentage or a value between 0 and 255.

I have spent about 20 minutes fiddling with AI export and importing into AS. There is something "odd" going on I can't figure out. I have some theories but they aren't based on any real knowledge, just guesses.

I am thinking that the AI/EPS import was developed back at version 8 of AI. I don't have that exact version and my thought is what may have happened to the AI file format since then. Even though I can export to v8 it may not be the same as it was exactly. AI/EPS import is still at v8 support.

Good news though, I was looking at the file format in a text editor so that still works. This means it would probably be possible to script an AS to AI/EPS converter. This REALLY REALLY REALLY has me excited to try out sometime. Also possibly... maybe... a scripted Illustrator import could be developed. I don't even want to think about that though. The curve interpreter in the current version is much improved and I know it's a freaking complex bit of code... but if the other way works out... maybe it could be done.

One thing I was thinking about possibly would be to use the AS import and then a "script" to "fix" the colors by reading the original file... might be tricky though.

I noticed that the AI format seems to use 2 different formats for color:

Code: Select all

0.6 0.8 0.2 (R=153 G=204 B=51 1)

The first set of numbers seem to be "normalized" color values (0-1). The second set is of course RGB with what I believe is the alpha at the end.

In my testing it appears that AS is reading the RGB values incorrectly or there is some type of "rounding" causing issues.

In my test here is the conversion changes:

AI - R-153 G-204 B-51
AS - R-153 G-254 B-0

I have to agree that I don't understand why the AI import can't read those numbers correctly. I think it should work. I am pretty sure that in the scripting interface colors in AS use normalized values (0-1). I don't know how that would effect things.

This is the first time I did any extensive tests or comparisons of the AI/EPS import. I may not have studied the AI format carefully enough to find the exact color formats. I found the color of the only shape in my sample file at the top of the file in the text editor... however I don't know if this is where AS is picking up the colors for the fills.

-vern

[heyvern]

AHA!

Okay, it seems that importing the same file in AI version 8 or version 3 has the same color value!!!!

AI 3 does NOT have rgb support. So there is probably something going on converting AI default cmyk values to RGB values in AS. V8 AI format does have CMYK conversion values in the file format.

I think AS is not using the RGB values but using the old AI format CMYK to create a close approximation of an RGB value.

-vern

[funksmaname]

ah... yeah that could be it...
A reliable way to export PDF or EPS would be a great addition. AS has innovative 2D tools you dont find in any other software which would make it a great illustration program... why Flash to illustrator conversion doesn't work as expected is a different matter completely! :S