yes, another leaving the forum

General Moho topics.

Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger

Paul Mesken
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Paul Mesken »

Well, it's a hard thing, moderation. I've been a moderator on an artist forum made of WetCanvas renegades (there are lots of forums of wetcanvas renegades). The artist who made the forum was all about free speech and all that. And I was too. I never banned a member, nor locked threads. The people were all very mature even if debates got heated. But there was also a moderator who felt strongly about not hurting anyone's feelings (even if the "hurted" person said he was not hurted at all). And she did ban people and locked threads. So I left because it went against the very thing the forum was made for. A moderator can really break a forum, more so than trolls.

WetCanvas (or "WetBlanket" as many like to call it) is overmoderated. It chased away many really good professional artists (the ones who charge and get 20K for paintings) and left only amateurs. This is, of course, in line with the aim of WetCanvas : to get as many hobbyist members as possible because they get their money from ads. Those professionals with their "harsh" critiques only chase away every "mother goose with a pastel box" who are only fishing for kudos in what they believe is in essence some kind of social club for "creative" people. And the numbers are on their side.

Take this for example :

1 - "lol did u learn to draw yesterday or sumthin?"
2 - "the hands suck, learn to draw first"

Both are rude and hurtfull. But #2 is actually constructive whereas #1 is just insulting. I would definitely phrase #2 differently and try to give some tips. Of course, only after calming down and thinking positive thoughts like "well, at least he's trying" because I would probably be thinking #1 :)

I think the bottomline is just that. Is a poster constructive or just insulting? Constructive posts, when worded harshly can be insulting but I wouldn't want to be a moderator who bans constructive people just because they are harsh. But I would (and I did, as moderator) step in to calm things down when things got heated. This is something every member can do. We can all remind each other to keep a civil tone without being pedantic about it (if there's one thing that makes people explode with anger then it's someone being pedantic, it's worse than an insult).

Of course, real trolls who are just in the business of making fun of people should be banned immediately. Although I always like to see a bit of good natured trolling for laughs (I did some myself with the whole Spain-Holland thing with some quick sketches, I didn't really think Holland deserved to win, the fouls made me cringe).

I think trolling isn't so bad in the chit-chat topic or the general topic. The "Share your work" topic is different, of course. It's hard to see whether someone is proud of his/her work and just waiting to collect kudos or is actually hoping to get some structured critiques. I've seen people ask for both but most just post a link.

Perhaps it would be an idea to have two topics for this. One where people just post their stuff but don't want to hear critiques and one where they post their stuff to do get structured critiques. A lot of forums have that setup.

Oh, and a "heated debate" topic, enter at your own risk! If people know beforehand that it will be heated, they will be less likely to take offense (I think.... hope).
Genete
Posts: 3483
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:27 pm
Location: España / Spain

Post by Genete »

[off topic mode]
Paul Mesken wrote:(I did some myself with the whole Spain-Holland thing with some quick sketches, I didn't really think Holland deserved to win, the fouls made me cringe)
Thanks God! I started to think that you were serious on that! :)
-G
[/off topic mode]
User avatar
neeters_guy
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:33 pm
Contact:

Post by neeters_guy »

Paul Mesken wrote:Perhaps it would be an idea to have two topics for this. One where people just post their stuff but don't want to hear critiques and one where they post their stuff to do get structured critiques. A lot of forums have that setup.
One idea I've seen on the DrunkDuck webcomics forum, is putting "[CRIT]" or "[PLUG]" in the header.
User avatar
heyvern
Posts: 7042
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:49 am

Post by heyvern »

Well I am guilty of being a wet blanket. :)

Mikdog posted a sample of his work done in another application and I got all pissy and annoyed about it. However I took a deep breath and made an attempt to discuss the ideas being presented regarding features in AS. As a result I have started a cool new script that could possibly lead to raster drawing and frame by frame animation in AS.

I think most of the "crap" that bugs a lot of us is REALLY REALLY crap posting. I would NEVER consider moderating or whatever with what Mikdog posted. I may have initially been annoyed by it but it wasn't bad enough to need moderation.

I think where things get out of hand is when things go really south with name calling or abusive attacks, or when someone is pissed off about some issue in AS and just continues to cross post the same thing over and over and over in different places. Sometimes it is hard to ignore.

At some point a person makes their point about an issue and then it needs to move on. At some point a discussion is over but continues beyond it's natural life span.

I am really happy though I was able to "get over it" and actually get something really positive out of a topic I initially found annoying. ;) I was always so annoyed by the harping about raster draw tools complaints in AS I never even tried to look at what could be done with it. That kind of debate is good. The kind of moderation I would be looking for is for extreme over the top irrelevant posts.

-vern
Lebostein
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:24 am

Post by Lebostein »

@Baker: Are you not able to ignore poor and childlike posts? How will you survive in the Internet, if you do not learn this skill?
DarthFurby
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: New York City
Contact:

Post by DarthFurby »

See you J Baker, hope you'll be back.
Post Reply