Guiding translating points....

[WhiteRider]

Hi all....

I've a fair idea the answer is no, but the asking may prompt a solution thats not occurred to me...

I've been experimenting with organic shapes so point animation is the order of the day.

So I've got an arm with a switch layer attached to the wrist so I can get an open and closed hand. Following a previous tip, I am starting with the open hand on frame one and moving points around on f30 thinking I would set the switch layer to interpolate points.

Of course, it didnt occur to me until I ran the playback that points will translate in a generally straight line from start to finish.

So I am wondering if there is a way to keep the points from collapsing in on each other as they move, aside from the obvious adding keyframes between start and finish? I was originally thinking to keep the number of switch layers to a minimum though I suppose it doesnt really matter so much.
Still, it would be rather cool (not to mention save a step or two) if there were an algorithm in place that basically says "Points dont cross their own line borders."

That would also ameliorate another problem I discovered. In this case its where the thumb folds over the clenched fingers when a fist is formed. Since the hand is a closed loop, the result is a kind of hole where the overlap occurs.

As I write this, it seems that a solution would be to make the thumb a separate object and pull it higher than the fingers object, which I will try after I post, but whilst we are here so to speak, does anyone else have an alternative? The idea is to not change the points so I can interpolate between layers.

Cheers...

[heyvern]

Using switch layers to interpolate hand shapes is going to be nearly impossible if the shapes are very different. Even using good old fashioned point motion will require a lot of key frames. You could try adding more switch layers to achieve better results but you will still be frustrated.

Most of the time you would use hand switch layers without interpolation for simple quick transitions. If you want smooth bending fingers I would suggest using bones. It seems like a lot of work but in the end it isn't so much and you can create an unlimited number of hand poses. Save them as actions and you can reuse them.

Here's an example with subtle interpolation in a switch layer. The two layers are very much the same but the thumb and fingers only change position slightly as the hand goes up:

http://www.lowrestv.com/anime_studio/sw ... switch.mov

Here's an example using only bones.

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/hands.mov

here's an example using both switch layers AND bones. The switch layers are identical. The only difference is shape order to change the direction of the hands (back to front). All other motion uses bones.

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/larry_hands2b.mov


-vern

[Rasheed]

If you look at the frame just before and at the switch, you could see an odd change. However, because the animation with the fingers is done so well, you don't really notice it.

As usual, making animation feel fluid comes down to proper staging and a feel by the animator of 3D shapes in a 2D environment, and can't be achieved with some magical technical trick or tool.

In order to animate, you need to have the skills to animate. I would concentrate on that, rather than on some special trick with interpolation. Only once you know how to do it visually, it is time to pick the right tools for the job, and try to approximate what you can see in your mind's eye as closely as possible.

[WhiteRider]

Using switch layers to interpolate hand shapes is going to be nearly impossible if the shapes are very different. Even using good old fashioned point motion will require a lot of key frames. You could try adding more switch layers to achieve better results but you will still be frustrated.

Thank you Vern. I've come to quite familiar terms with frustration of late.
Laugh.
I think am rather accustomed to it now.

Most of the time you would use hand switch layers without interpolation for simple quick transitions. If you want smooth bending fingers I would suggest using bones. It seems like a lot of work but in the end it isn't so much and you can create an unlimited number of hand poses. Save them as actions and you can reuse them.

Nono, rigging is no trouble at all, but I'm trying to learn something *new*. grin.

Here's an example with subtle interpolation in a switch layer. The two layers are very much the same but the thumb and fingers only change position slightly as the hand goes up:

http://www.lowrestv.com/anime_studio/sw ... switch.mov

Yes. Very nice. Subtleties make all the difference in the world.

Here's an example using only bones.

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/hands.mov

Ah, very nice. How many closed loops to make this hand?

As mentioned, I tried making the thumbs a separate closed loop and I like the results enough to individuate the fingers as well. At least so far....

here's an example using both switch layers AND bones. The switch layers are identical. The only difference is shape order to change the direction of the hands (back to front). All other motion uses bones.

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/larry_hands2b.mov

Hey, I recognize that paw... With 5.6 ability to keyframe stack order changes, that should simplify this particular switch layer, yes?

But this does answer a question I wondered at while reading above; whether a bone layer can exist as a switch layer... cool.


Thank you for taking the time, Vern

[WhiteRider]

If you look at the frame just before and at the switch, you could see an odd change. However, because the animation with the fingers is done so well, you don't really notice it.

As usual, making animation feel fluid comes down to proper staging and a feel by the animator of 3D shapes in a 2D environment, and can't be achieved with some magical technical trick or tool.

Thank you Rasheed.

I have to admit that I took a moment to make a reply because that last paragraph reads like a slap on the hand. But since you have no reason to "attack" I must conclude its a poor interpretation on my part.

That said, I'm somewhat compelled to comment that I am not looking for a magical trick. Just an *understanding* of the tool. I'd count that as a very marked difference.

In order to animate, you need to have the skills to animate. I would concentrate on that, rather than on some special trick with interpolation. Only once you know how to do it visually, it is time to pick the right tools for the job, and try to approximate what you can see in your mind's eye as closely as possible.

Sorry Rasheed. I have to disagree with this. And Its a fair bet that the original creators of AS disagree as well, unless they never intended to sell their product to non-animators?

Or to put it another way, how does one gain the skills to animate in the first place? I'm fairly certain skill is not a genetic trait, nor is it magically imbued. It is a learned trait, and just as a painter must learn the strengths and limits of his brushes, knives, and paint, I ask questions (even ones I've already answered in case you didnt notice) in order to learn THIS tool.


And before I get pounced on, I am *not* saying that gaining a mastery of AS will also teach me traditional elements of animation such as stretch/squash, leading with the eye, exaggeration, etc. I am simply saying that understanding the limits of the software allows a decidedly *non animator* like me to explore those traditions.

Not to mention explore new methods and perhaps create new traditions.
I am sure you are at least passingly aware of the shifts and trends between Merry Melodies (every "keyframe" hits exactly on a beat) and the hyper fluidity of Storm Hawks (cartoon rendered 3D) and all the points in between.
If every animator followed all the "rules" without innovation, we'd never have grown from Steamboat Willy to Snow White or gotten to the 2/3 D mix like Titan A.E.

I can virtually guarantee that I wont be one to revolutionize animation, either craft or industry, but I'd certainly like to explore possibilities.

And who knows? Maybe if I dont already know what I *cant* do, I might find a trick or two that makes the process faster so skilled *and* non skilled animators can concentrate more on telling the story.

And even if I cant, its still nice to have a goal. Wouldnt you agree?

Cheers...