Bone offsets, verdict?

[chucky]

I don't see why this is necessary.
Take the example of a pair of pants.
If these pants are broken into layers at the hips and offset, then compound shapes cannot be used to join the legs to the waist(unless I'm wrong) so then these pants become segmented and clumsy.
This whole compound shape versus layers thing is a real problem for me.
I want to use a few more layers to declutter the construction and make it possible for objects to overlap more flexibly, but as soon as I do this my model's shape becomes inflexible and cutout looking when animated.

A similar issue is point binding of shapes to bones within switch or group layers- but , that's another topic and probably covered somewhere if I look hard enough.shock:

What's the verdict- any suggestions? :

[heyvern]

The verdict is.... WRONG on both counts. Compound shapes and bone offset.

Compound shapes on multiple layers:

Think about it for a second. The pants specifically. Draw the legs or pants all on one layer. Use the connected splines and draw your compound shapes.

Dup the layer. Now just delete the shapes that don't belong. On the "thigh" layer delete the calf shape. On the calf shape delete the thigh and hip shapes, etc etc. You end up with repeated "lines" on multiple layers but who cares? As long as the shapes bend nicely with smooth joints it doesn't matter. The points are the same on both so they create an illusion of being on one layer and connected.

Smooth connected shapes with bone offsetting

On the matter of bone offsetting. Why does bone offset automatically require distinct separate shapes like cut out animation? It doesn't. If the legs and hips need to be connected for a smooth joint... then leave them connected. You can even do multiple bone offset if you need extra bones for control (I've done that with offset shoulders).

Bind the top of the leg to the hip bones. Slide the points for the thigh and calf over to the offset thigh bones. It looks very weird on frame 0 but it doesn't matter once you offset the bones back to connect to the hips.

Not only does it work... you can do some really cool stuff like this. Just remember that bone offset works even if the shapes are "stretched" or distorted over long distances.

I slammed this reply out really quick so I glossed over the details. But both compound shapes with smooth bending joints can work over multiple layers. Bone offset doesn't mean "cut out" animation by default.

-vern

[chucky]

Ahhhh I had overlooked the possibility of keeping the lines and removing the shapes. I must be losing it.
Thanks Vern!
This would work just fine as you say Vern and I guess the big stretchy shapes on first frame don't matter either.

Of course I'll have to be careful with point animation over some areas, but that may be a small price.

[heyvern]

Yes, having duplicate meshes on two different layers is a pain. If you tweak points you have to do it twice.

A couple of things to streamline this;

1. Use the meshinstance script. Works like a charm but has the added overhead of using a layer script. This is the easiest and quickest solution.

Or...

2. Make edits on just one layer then dup the layer and refill the missing shape. Takes seconds really... unless there are a lot of shapes missing.

I have a very simple character with 3 shapes on two layers of the whole leg; thigh, calf, sock. If I make edits I do it on the calf layer. then when i duplicate it to replace the old thigh layer I only have to select and fill the thigh shape and delete the calf and sock shapes.

I like the script method but sometimes I'm too lazy to load it in on every file and the dup/re-shape method is pretty fast. Plus with the script you can't name the layers the way you want making them hard to find quickly for layer ordering during animation. I've been fiddling with that script from a suggestion from Synth to make it a little more flexible in that regard.

-vern