Suggested Workflow

boogiebac · Post by **boogiebac** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:36 pm

Hey All,

Stumbled upon AS 2 weeks ago and it's kinda blown my mind

I had all kinds of cartooning plans for Flash (my weapon of choice the last 8 years) but AS makes things too easy, and now I can't stop visiting the forums and learning the tools!

The one thing I'm having trouble grasping is the best way to get QUALITY artwork QUICKLY into AS. From what I can tell, the vector drawing in AS is closer to Corel and Illustrator (which require more node manipulation that I prefer), unlike drawing in Flash which feels more Raster than Vector.

Then I look at the great work being done across these boards, and I realize that I may be overlooking a pipeline that someone else has discovered.

So...to my new AS friends...what is your suggested workflow? Do you...

...bring in bitmaps to animate?
...draw directly into AS?
...bring in vector work from other sources (flash, corel)?
...have another brand of genius that I haven't tried?

Thanks for any feedback!

-Scott (boogiebac) Tykoski

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:52 pm

This is my opinion only. Many would disagree...

Learn to draw IN Anime Studio.

Every other technique has it's limitations. Importing vectors from Illustrator requires massive clean up. As much clean up work as drawing it in AS if you know the tools.

Images have limitations in how they can be manipulated by bones. You can't grab one small piece of an image and stretch it separately with out it looking... stretched and odd. Images would be "puppet" or "cut out" style with some minimal warping.

My advice... learn to draw in AS. It takes some getting use to, the curves can act oddly at times but it's worth the effort.

TIP:

Nice smooth curves in AS are based on "3's". You can get amazingly smooth curves if you remember that. Two points with one in the middle makes a perfect curve. Adjust the "curvature" of the middle point with the curve tool. If you have a curve that is "bumpy" adjust the points so the curves are created in a sort of "triad" of points. Even if you have to have "dangling" points, extra splines off the end that help shape the curve.

I've found this to be a great help. Once I got the hang of that "3 point" system I can draw nearly anything in AS.

As does not require a lot of points. That is why it's better than Flash in my opinon. I prefer this method to "painting" in the way that Flash works.

-vern

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:26 pm

Yeah, I agree with Vern. Everyone has trouble learning the AS drawing tools, but since I have, I absolutely love them. I don't even use the freehand tool, just the add point and curvature tools.

I'm not too keen on node manipulation myself either, but AS is much 'tighter' in that regard than most other vector programs, IMO. I don't think I could go back to messing with bezier handles ever again. It's just too much tweeking. I can get any curve I want out of the AS tool set.

As far as methodology, I think the best bet is to bring in your drawings as image layers and then trace them. Vector art gives you the most options.

I have seen some really nice looking raster art masked by a vector shape, but that seems like sooo much more work to me. I'm sure I'll have to try it some day though.

boogiebac · Post by **boogiebac** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:17 pm

heyvern: Yeah, judging from the posts I've seen from you I figured this would be your response

The 'Work in 3's' suggestion definatly helped, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the lack of 'Concave' curves. I suppose it's a limitation to ensure the bones system properly flexes things, but as an artist it seems like a hefty limitation (mostly in cartooning).

It's coming though

Just going to take longer that I expected.

synth: Thanks for the push towards AS. There are some features in the toolset that are pretty awesome: hiding lines on a per segment basis is something I've wanted in a vector program FOREVER, and their line width and style tools are amazingin general.

However, I'm having some troubles with the 'fill' tool...if I draw two overlapping shapes (ex. a 3/4ths head with a long nose overlapping it) it'll ignore the fact that they're individual closed shapes and try to fill the intersected area, giving me a nice red 'error' outline.

Any ideas (or options) on getting the fill to work on closed shapes, not the interecteing area?

Thanks for the tips, guys!

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:11 pm

An overlapping nose?

Might need to see that. It could be you are trying to make ONE shape when you need to make TWO. If the nose overlaps the head it should be created as a separate shape from the head.

Select just the points for the head and create the shape. Select just the points for the nose, create the shape.

If you try to select overlapping meshes that create closed shapes to create one shape, you will either get a "compound" shape (like a "donut" shape, circle in a circle), or depending on how the points are connected you won't get a fill.

Best would be to make sure the nose and head are not connected in any way at all. Make two separate shapes.

Also make sure you download Fazeks tools. they are in the scripting area. His is a sticky thread at the top. Something like "Suggestions for script writing" or something like that. Just look for Fazek as the author of the thread.

Get his drawing and shape tools. they are MUCH better than the standard tools. Don't REMOVE the standard tools until you get use to his. They are different and sometimes you need the originals. I keep the standard translate tools so I can shift drag to constrain points or bones.

Also Fazek's rotate points tool also rotates bones which is not so good because it rotates them independantly of the the bone hierarchy.

Overall though his tools kick arse. Especially the translate points tool.

-vern

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:50 pm

However, I'm having some troubles with the 'fill' tool...if I draw two overlapping shapes (ex. a 3/4ths head with a long nose overlapping it) it'll ignore the fact that they're individual closed shapes and try to fill the intersected area, giving me a nice red 'error' outline.

What is probably happening is that, like Vern said, your two shapes are connected. But you may not need to separate them. If one of the two 'intersected area' lines doesn't have a vector point somewhere between where it connects to the other, AS doesn't know that you don't want to select that line, since both of its points are selected. Adding an intermediate point should solve this.

Concave curves are definitely doable in AS. When I say AS can create any shape, I do mean absolutely any shape. What you need to do is create your concave line separately. You can then connect this line where you need it by using the translate point tool (the space bar will weld points).

The trick is not to weld it at the points, because this will merge the curves of the two lines (thus ruining your concave line). If you weld it on the line, you can then delete the extra extending points and maintain the separate curvature of the concave line.

Keep at it. Believe me you will be a convert if you can get use to it.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:49 pm

Is this what you mean by "concave" curves?

http://www.lowrestv.com/anime_studio/pa ... /moon.anme

-vern

boogiebac · Post by **boogiebac** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:35 am

heyvern wrote:Is this what you mean by "concave" curves?

Damn, vern, those are some sexy curves

(the classic vector jokes never get old)

Yeah, that's what I was talking about, but for some reason 1. imported AI files don't play nice with concave handles and 2. the freehand tool is messing with my lines, so I assumed that was just how AS did things. Guess I have some more playing to do

I'll download those tweaked tools and see if they're more intuitive. ATM it definatly feels a bit like I'm fighting the interface, but I read that those tweaked scripts are more intutive / less clicky.

I have some more questions, but I'll wiat till I have some picts to help explain my problems.

Thanks again for your guys' help!

boogiebac · Post by **boogiebac** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:40 am

synthsin75 wrote:What is probably happening is that, like Vern said, your two shapes are connected.

Yeah, drawning the objects on seperate 'Vector' layers make the fill tool work nicer

I definalty still have alot to learn, but already it's feeling more natural...I really want to get to the point where I can draw (no tracing needed) into AS while keeping true to the characters' design. We'll see how these tweaked tools help the ol' workflow

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:04 am

AS curves are funky dude! Real funky. They feel strange at first. Very frustrating. So frustrating at first you feel like giving up. It took me a while to see the light.

Then suddenly... if you keep adjusting and moving points and learning how they behave and how they are different, you get the hang of it. It will just sort of click. You start to intuitively know how to get the curves you need. How the points locations work to make a smooth curve. How to very subtlety adjust the point curves (not too much. You push the curve tool to far on a point you just get those weird bumpy things).

I would never trade the ease of animation with AS to get the bézier curves... unless of course they were "designed" to work with AS for optimum effect.

-vern