Moving control points in switch layers in the camera view

[GCharb]

Hello all!

Was wondering if it was possible to create layer switches for say a hand, then animate and add keyframe in the main timeline and then be able to modify control point position?

Say I add switches for a head position at frame 12, add the same switch, say 3/4 on frame 14 then modify it points by points so create an inbetween, is that possible?

Been trying that for a bit, could not find anything on the forum about that topic.

Any response would be most apreciated!

GC

[DK]

You can use interpolate sub layers to create the in betweens in the switch layers. Though to do this you need to use the exact amount of points for each layer for it to work. I usually duplicate one layer then just manpulate points for the second layer and it works great.

D.K

[heyvern]

Yes you can key frame point motion of switch layers.

What will happen if you have interpolation turned on with the switch is that any point motion of a switch layer will be "blended" or interpolated to the next keyed switch layer. This is quite handy and kind of cool.

However, the point motion is still for that time that it's been keyed. It isn't like the point motion you add from frame 1 to 20 will "repeat" again when the switch layer is activated later. The keys in the switch only do their thing for the actual time they are set. You can of course copy and paste keys in the switch layer point motion just like any other vector layer.

Be prepared because it can be a bit confusing key framing a switch layer in the middle of the time line with switch keys set. Tthe layer you are editing will temporarily "revert" back to it's original shape without the included interpolation from the next switch layer.

Hard to describe and it depends on where in the time line you edit the points of a switch layer. However at the end it always works as it should. All point motion is blended or interpolated smoothly.

If you do this with interpolation off on the switch... then... well.. There is no "odd" behavior and it works as you would expect like any other vector layer. As long as that switch layer is visible any point motion will be seen, the points will animate until the next layer is activated.

-vern

[GCharb]

Thank you both for the replies, I will try to be more specific here.

I do not want to use interpolation really, in the switch layers, what I am looking for is a way to setup switch layers for the main poses then use point motion in the camera view to teak the final result without touching the switch layers.

Like say I use a certain hand switch at frame 15, then a diffrent hand switch(pose) at frame 19, then use point motion to create an inbetween at frame 17.

Hope this makes it a little clearer.

Again, thanks for your time!

GC

[slowtiger]

I do this all the time. Many hand movements are so complicated that a) interpolation can't be trusted or B) is plainly impossible. But remember that you get off best when you do things quickly, so you have two very different hand poses but only one inbetween. Think of animating on two's, you don't need to have a key on every frame. And quite often I don't change an existing switch but duplicate it and then do the inbetween, to re-use it again and again more easily.

[funksmaname]

I'm not sure it does make it clearer, but what Vern is saying is:

hand position A activated at frame 15
hand position B activated at frame 19

so in order to do an inbetween, you just do normal point motion on A at frame 17... no big confussion? if then at frame 100 you want to go back to hand A from B, then you can do point motion at frame 98 then switch at 100.

essentially, you can do point motion on any of the vector layers you're switching between, which you will only see while they are active.

animate points on A between 1-18, and then 100+
animate points on hand B between 19-99.

...or have i missed your point as well?

[GCharb]

Hello again!

...or have i missed your point as well?

I think you got the point.

Thing is, I was wondering if it was possible to make an inbetween between two switches but without messing with the switch layers themselves.

Hers's a sample file of a hand changing using switches

hand.zip 6kb

Would it be possible to, say, bend the fingers a bit on frame 15 without modifying the switch layers?

GC

[heyvern]

Would it be possible to, say, bend the fingers a bit on frame 15 without modifying the switch layers?

GC

Absolutely. You could do this with point motion but it won't look "right". Point motion is linear, instead of a rotation the points will just slide in a straight line to the new position.

Try using bones in the switch layer just for that layer (not a bone layer IN the switch but bones directly ON the switch layer). This would mean "releasing" the points of all the other switch layer so the bones won't effect them. You can also have a set of different bones for each hand layer in the switch using point binding to the bones or using bone offset on frame 0.

You could put bone layers IN the switch since you aren't using switch interpolation, however this means you have to open the switch layer to select the bone layer inside it to animate. I prefer the bones as close to the "top" as possible for easy access.

Remember that layers in the switch are just like... exactly like... a regular vector layer in a bone layer. It's all the same.

-vern

[GCharb]

Hello Vern.

Thanks, that answers my question!

GC

[GCharb]

Hello again!

I have tried some of the tips you guys proposed, which I apreciate tons, I do, but, being a 30+years experienced animator animator I need some extra control over the animation I am planning to do.

I tried to animate point motion on top of switch layers but cant seem to find a way to make the control points active outside of the switches themselves, I'd really apreciate if someone could show me the way so I could achieve that.

I made a very small hand.anme file, which was posted in a previous post, could anyone have a look at it, modify the hand at say, frame 15, save the file and send it back or post it so I can have a look.

Again, I am looking for a way to add animation on top of switch layers animation, in a word, i'd make a rough with switches then tweak it with point motion.

Many thanks!

GC

[DK]

I took a look at your hand file but I do not understand the movement you are trying to get. At frame 14 the thumb disapears from that layer. Is it a 180 deg rotation from back view or front view?

Cheers
D.K

[GCharb]

Hello DK

Heheh yeah, the hand goes from back turn to front but I used a wrong pose for the hand down, just a very short anime to illustrate what I am looking for, I could fix it.

The way I may go with this is making actions instead of switches, like, I import poses in actions, animate the character the way I want it in it then make the inbetweens by modyfiying extra poses that are the closest to my needs at that frame.

In clear, say I have a character going from a left side pose to a 3/4 left pose to front then 3/4 right to right side. I put some extra poses in between the ones mentionned and modify them as needed, more tedious but more control as well!

GC

[GCharb]

Hello again!

Just made another example to illustrate what I am looking for.

Quicktime 7 68 kb

Here is the file
toonhead.anme 10.3 kb zip

It is very mechanical, animated with switches. Of course, if it was on a body, animated in space, with good timing, it would look much better.

Now, if I could hand animate some secondary motion on top of all the layers, I could add some nice and fluid stretch and squash, add some expression, have a much better control over the quality of animation and give it a disney feel to it!

GC

[DK]

Ahhh....I see! You want to be able to use grouped Switch Layers to operate eyes mouth etc but you also want to be able to tweek the character as if it were one layer. This would be brilliant if it could be done.

Unfortunately the only answer to smooth head turns is to keep your character entirely on one layer with a set amount of points then use point/bone tweeking and intepolation to get those smooth transitions between poses. You would have to hand animated eyes and mouth but Actions could help out there. You could bind the eyes and mouth layers to a bone so that the maintain correct proportions when moved. This is basically doing traditional animation but with the added bonus of interpolation.

D.K

[DK]

Here's a little head turn I made a whileback to demonstrate Animated Layer ordering. It might give you some ideas.

http://www.wienertoonz.com/DKLayordturn2.anme

Cheers
D.K