I know this is an animation forum, but I'm hoping some of you have taken my route and done the whole DIY thing with your projects.
So, I'm wrestling with something that's been bugging me. . .how do we know WHICH sounds are worthy of getting their own dedicated sound FX?
Obviously anything integral to the story, or anything really big (explosions, crashes, etc.), but what about the more mundane everyday stuff?
For instance, I've got a guy walking across a carpet, or a hard floor. Should we hear this? What if we don't see his feet?
I very unscientifically checked out a few minutes of the simposons and King of the Hill to how they handled it. As a I remember, the Simpsons was very sparse with its sound FX, only putting them in when it would absolutely seem weird without them.
King of the Hill seemed to have a sound for everything. . .the dog softly padding across the carpet, things being put down gently on a table, etc.
Maybe this has to do with the style of the shows? King of the Hill is much more grounded in reality than the simpsons, both visually and storywise.
I dunno. Ideas? Thanks.
the art of foley for animation
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
I've been doing SFX for my shorts for not too long but what I've found is that it works to have only a single focus for the sound effects. If there's too much going on, it becomes muddy. However, if all the sound effects point to one clear message, it makes more sense. So if I try and put sfx for the walk, and the other character blinking, and the character moving up and down, its too much and there's no focus. But if there's nothing happening, putting a sfx for a blink works quite nicely.
I'm still getting into it but that's my offering.
I'd suggest putting in the big sounds first that support the focus of what's happening on screen, and then if something looks/feels weird without sfx there, add or subtract as necessary.
I'm still getting into it but that's my offering.
I'd suggest putting in the big sounds first that support the focus of what's happening on screen, and then if something looks/feels weird without sfx there, add or subtract as necessary.
What's the style of your film? If it's dialogue-driven, you don't need much more additional sounds (Simpsons, Family Guy). If it's emotion-driven, you need much atmosphere, and, if you have an intimate scene, also Foley. If it's action, you need the whole orchestra of sounds.
In the end it is, like everything, a matter of balance. Music, dialogue, sound FX must be in a healthy mix. Don't watch cartoons only to study sound. There should be a list, unfortunately I know of none, of films with great sound. Maybe there's a list of winners for sound design somewhere?
Sound is as important as image. Good sound FX can rise the overall quality of a film greatly.
The mix of sounds is an art in itself. Stereo will not help you much here. You need to spread your sounds in 3 dimensions: in time, in volume, and in frequency. That means: you have passages with and without sound, loud and silent passages, and sounds in high or low frequencies. The most important tool of a sound designer is the filter: this eliminates the "muddyness" of sounds. Always have a notch filter at about 100 Hz, a low cut for atmosphere, a high cut for voices. Use compression for dialogue, if needed, and sophisticated compression with a side band for really big effects. If this sounds chinese to you, get some basic sound designer book.
One of my fondest memory of an animated film was a russion version of Franz Kafka's "Der Landarzt" (A country doctor) I once saw in Annecy. I didn't understand any russion, and the subtitles were french: Yet that film had a dense atmosphere of dozens of layered sounds, some old woman singing, children crying, some animals, then the dialogue, and sounds of wooden household equipment, people walking on creaking wood ...
Most animation is almost empty, soundwise, to my ears. I will do something different.
In the end it is, like everything, a matter of balance. Music, dialogue, sound FX must be in a healthy mix. Don't watch cartoons only to study sound. There should be a list, unfortunately I know of none, of films with great sound. Maybe there's a list of winners for sound design somewhere?
Sound is as important as image. Good sound FX can rise the overall quality of a film greatly.
The mix of sounds is an art in itself. Stereo will not help you much here. You need to spread your sounds in 3 dimensions: in time, in volume, and in frequency. That means: you have passages with and without sound, loud and silent passages, and sounds in high or low frequencies. The most important tool of a sound designer is the filter: this eliminates the "muddyness" of sounds. Always have a notch filter at about 100 Hz, a low cut for atmosphere, a high cut for voices. Use compression for dialogue, if needed, and sophisticated compression with a side band for really big effects. If this sounds chinese to you, get some basic sound designer book.
One of my fondest memory of an animated film was a russion version of Franz Kafka's "Der Landarzt" (A country doctor) I once saw in Annecy. I didn't understand any russion, and the subtitles were french: Yet that film had a dense atmosphere of dozens of layered sounds, some old woman singing, children crying, some animals, then the dialogue, and sounds of wooden household equipment, people walking on creaking wood ...
Most animation is almost empty, soundwise, to my ears. I will do something different.
half dialogue, then goes into action/battle/superhero mode.
Of course I will mix/compress/EQ when the time comes, right now I'm just laying the sound FX into the timeline and wondering if I'm trying to assign sounds to too many things that don't need it.
I guess I'll just see how everything sounds when I'm at the mix stage, and if the carpet footfalls, for instance, seem like too much, they're out.
Of course I will mix/compress/EQ when the time comes, right now I'm just laying the sound FX into the timeline and wondering if I'm trying to assign sounds to too many things that don't need it.
I guess I'll just see how everything sounds when I'm at the mix stage, and if the carpet footfalls, for instance, seem like too much, they're out.
Great insights here!
I just wanted to mention that I once saw a great performance of Ibsen's An Enemy of the People. When the townspeople were harassing the main character, one of the actors started playing loud trombone notes in the face of the distressed main character. Those sounds and a lot of yelling and people moving all around created a distinct emotional state. For me, the point of the entire play is captured in that one moment.
So if your action scene is intended to prompt an emotional state, consider how sound can contribute to that.
I just wanted to mention that I once saw a great performance of Ibsen's An Enemy of the People. When the townspeople were harassing the main character, one of the actors started playing loud trombone notes in the face of the distressed main character. Those sounds and a lot of yelling and people moving all around created a distinct emotional state. For me, the point of the entire play is captured in that one moment.
So if your action scene is intended to prompt an emotional state, consider how sound can contribute to that.
From what you say, it seems like fewer specific sound effects would be the way to go with your project. If it's mostly about comedy and fun and you don't need to immerse your audience in some kind of atmosphere, extra sound effects may just distract from your jokes and story.
BTW, thanks for posting your findings about the sounds in the Simpsons and King of the Hill. That is useful info for me.
BTW, thanks for posting your findings about the sounds in the Simpsons and King of the Hill. That is useful info for me.
Thanks. I will see how it goes. . .if the extra sounds seem distracting, I'll take 'em out.
I guess I'm worried about the soundtrack seeming "empty." if there's a period where no one's talking for a few seconds, seems like maybe we should hear foosteps if they're walking, you know? But in that case, if they ARE talking, then the missing footsteps would seem weird.
I guess I'm worried about the soundtrack seeming "empty." if there's a period where no one's talking for a few seconds, seems like maybe we should hear foosteps if they're walking, you know? But in that case, if they ARE talking, then the missing footsteps would seem weird.
Exactly that is my complaint about many animation soundtracks! But you don't need to fill up pauses in dialogue with footsteps of your actors. Think of where they are. Inside, outside? Which noises usually happen in these places? If they're in an apartment, you could create a good underlying atmosphere with just some buzzing of the fridge and some muffled traffic noises. Underlying, as in "barely audible", but enough to prevent dead silence.I'm worried about the soundtrack seeming "empty."
That was actually another question. . .
Should there be a general "room tone" under everything?
Live action material always has some kind of atmosphere in the room, no matter how quiet the situation. Even air flowing past the microphone causes some minimal noise, and this is generally used to fill gaps between dialogue or anything else.
Does the same apply to animation?
Also, keep in mind, as a super no budget project, the dialogue was recorded in a homemade sound booth so there is absolutely more noise in the signal than if it had been recorded professionally. Given that, I might need room tone just so you don't hear it kick in every time a line of dialogue or a homemade foley effect occurs.
Should there be a general "room tone" under everything?
Live action material always has some kind of atmosphere in the room, no matter how quiet the situation. Even air flowing past the microphone causes some minimal noise, and this is generally used to fill gaps between dialogue or anything else.
Does the same apply to animation?
Also, keep in mind, as a super no budget project, the dialogue was recorded in a homemade sound booth so there is absolutely more noise in the signal than if it had been recorded professionally. Given that, I might need room tone just so you don't hear it kick in every time a line of dialogue or a homemade foley effect occurs.
In the times of analogue sound recording, sound mixers would use tape known as "static" to splice between dialogue passages. This was tape which seemed to be empty, yet contained enough noise to not be dead silence. You could do the same, just record "nothing" for some 10 seconds and loop that.
BTW, a home sound booth can give the same result as any "professional" studio if done right. It's all just a matter of where to place the mic, distance to mouth, and some dampening (I use bedsheets for that).
BTW, a home sound booth can give the same result as any "professional" studio if done right. It's all just a matter of where to place the mic, distance to mouth, and some dampening (I use bedsheets for that).
Usually, during the mix, a ambient or Atmos track will be added - this successfully covers the voice track: Can be great fun to make too: Since its background, often mp3 recorders are sufficiently good enough, though obviously, DAT or solid-state recorders are used for pro.
As for music, the other night I messed around with Adobe Audition, using orchestral pizzicato clips - the result is actually very good - all I have to do is add some animation to the 30 second track
Rhoel
As for music, the other night I messed around with Adobe Audition, using orchestral pizzicato clips - the result is actually very good - all I have to do is add some animation to the 30 second track
Rhoel