Layer ordering problem

[Datawraith]

I'm back again. . .

This time I've been having problems with the layer ordering. I have both "allow animated layer effects" and "Enable animated layer ordering" on.

Problem is, is that the layer ordering doesn't work atm. Is there something wrong? also I noticed that when I started having this problem. the exported animations have different layer ordering than the ones I have in the file. (Arm behind body in exported animation. Arm in front of body in file)

help?

[funksmaname]

animated layer effects have nothing to do with layer ordering - just know that the keys for the ordering are on found on the parent group/bone layer so that's the first place to look whats going on...

try clearing animation from the document and run another test - if you have a lot of layers it can get a bit confusing when you sometimes make adjustments you want to be permanent to layer order when not in frame 0 which makes you go nuts as the layers then move around next time you check (or different in frame 0)

start with two layers in a group, put a simple shape in each overlapping, turn on animated layer order, and play with it till you understand how it works before going to a more complex scene

[Datawraith]

animated layer effects have nothing to do with layer ordering - just know that the keys for the ordering are on found on the parent group/bone layer so that's the first place to look whats going on...

try clearing animation from the document and run another test - if you have a lot of layers it can get a bit confusing when you sometimes make adjustments you want to be permanent to layer order when not in frame 0 which makes you go nuts as the layers then move around next time you check (or different in frame 0)

start with two layers in a group, put a simple shape in each overlapping, turn on animated layer order, and play with it till you understand how it works before going to a more complex scene

so it's not because The file is a switch layer? If I sent you the file could you take a look? It's beyond much. I'm making it so that the character can interpolate between two views. (front and left)

[funksmaname]

ah, i thought this might be the issue
Switch layers don't support layer ordering since only one layer can ever be visible at once (you dont actually have the 'enable layer ordering' button in switch layer preferences) - another thing to note that regardless of which switch layer is currently active in the timeline (which is the layer that renders) only the switch sublayer you are currently active is displayed on the canvas (for editting purposes) so if you click off to a layer outside the switch, or the parent switch layer itself, you'll see the layer that is currently active and will be the one to be rendered.

again, switch layer keys are held on the switch layer itself so check where those layers are being switch in your timeline, or clear the frames and the one that's active at frame 0 will render.

if you want to use switch layer interpolation for body turns you'll have to put every shape into a single layer - turn on interpolation in the switch options, and just make sure that the correct shapes are in the front/back on the particular layer... although switch layers aren't really made for this purpose - you'd be better off using a normal bone/group layer and re-ordering sublayers as you probably originally intended.

[Datawraith]

ah, i thought this might be the issue
Switch layers don't support layer ordering since only one layer can ever be visible at once (you dont actually have the 'enable layer ordering' button in switch layer preferences) - another thing to note that regardless of which switch layer is currently active in the timeline (which is the layer that renders) only the switch sublayer you are currently active is displayed on the canvas (for editting purposes) so if you click off to a layer outside the switch, or the parent switch layer itself, you'll see the layer that is currently active and will be the one to be rendered.

again, switch layer keys are held on the switch layer itself so check where those layers are being switch in your timeline, or clear the frames and the one that's active at frame 0 will render.

if you want to use switch layer interpolation for body turns you'll have to put every shape into a single layer - turn on interpolation in the switch options, and just make sure that the correct shapes are in the front/back on the particular layer... although switch layers aren't really made for this purpose - you'd be better off using a normal bone/group layer and re-ordering sublayers as you probably originally intended.

Thanks for the info. ah man this is getting more and more difficult. Think you might be able to take a look at how I have the character set up and then offer a suggestion on how I should set up the person?

[funksmaname]

have you done all the tutorials? link me to the file and i'll have a look, but characters can be rigged in all sorts of ways depending on what you want to do with them... there's no really easy way to do a turn without practice and patience... you have to learn by failing lots

[Datawraith]

have you done all the tutorials? link me to the file and i'll have a look, but characters can be rigged in all sorts of ways depending on what you want to do with them... there's no really easy way to do a turn without practice and patience... you have to learn by failing lots

uploaded:

http://rapidshare.com/files/413854506/C ... urn-_.anme

also I think I'm going to make the switch layer a group layer and then I'm just going to change the "visible" setting to the one that should be seen. If you view the turning animation one frame at a time, you'll notice that the ordering of the arm and the upper body didn't agree.

btw, your icon. Did you make that using Anime Studio?

[funksmaname]

I'll check it out tomorrow, its late here
and yes, i made it in anime studio - i posted a video tutorial on walk cycles recently in tips and techniques, it explains how i did the styling...

Catch you tomorrow

[Datawraith]

I'll check it out tomorrow, its late here
and yes, i made it in anime studio - i posted a video tutorial on walk cycles recently in tips and techniques, it explains how i did the styling...

Catch you tomorrow

I stayed up all night. lol

[funksmaname]

not my fault...
I've had a quick look - i got meetings this morning so i have to run but a few quick pointers

You can create switch sublayer interpolation automatically by enabling 'interpolate sub-layers' in the 'switch' tab of the switch layer preferences. This will only work if you have exactly the same 'build' underneith regardless of pose (i.e. same mouth using the same points, but in a different arrangement to make another shape will interpolate - whereas drawing a new mouth wont)

your turn left build is different to your front view so it won't interpolate... but you could take the turn left bone out of the switch layer and use layer ordering to order the front arm over the animation you've already created - duplicating the whole rig like that is probably not the most elegant solution.

I'm not actually sure interpolation works with so many nested sub-switch layers. I hardly ever use switch layers, but their more inteded for different eye/mouth/hand options.

Another tip is don't bother working in 1080p until you want to render as all your test renders will take a long time... just maintain the aspect ratio and you can render really quickly.

Also, you have a million switch layers - sometimes with only one sub layer... what's your thinking behind that?

Interpolation will always look mechanical - i would record the turn as an action and just call it when needed rather than alway shaving unused duplicates of your entire rig hidden away...

I'll check back later but you can start fiddling with the suggestions above.

Regards

[slowtiger]

I'm not actually sure interpolation works with so many nested sub-switch layers.

I think interpolation only works with vector layers in the first level inside a switch layer.

Another tip is don't bother working in 1080p until you want to render as all your test renders will take a long time... just maintain the aspect ratio and you can render really quickly.

Well ... I work in 1080p especially when importing bitmaps or video since they will automatically fit. For rendering I use the "half dimension" option, that's fast enough. But of course you could change the project dimensions to something smaller, there's no loss of quality, only bear in mind that imported stuff will be scaled.

[Datawraith]

not my fault...
I've had a quick look - i got meetings this morning so i have to run but a few quick pointers

You can create switch sublayer interpolation automatically by enabling 'interpolate sub-layers' in the 'switch' tab of the switch layer preferences. This will only work if you have exactly the same 'build' underneith regardless of pose (i.e. same mouth using the same points, but in a different arrangement to make another shape will interpolate - whereas drawing a new mouth wont)

your turn left build is different to your front view so it won't interpolate... but you could take the turn left bone out of the switch layer and use layer ordering to order the front arm over the animation you've already created - duplicating the whole rig like that is probably not the most elegant solution.

I'm not actually sure interpolation works with so many nested sub-switch layers. I hardly ever use switch layers, but their more inteded for different eye/mouth/hand options.

Another tip is don't bother working in 1080p until you want to render as all your test renders will take a long time... just maintain the aspect ratio and you can render really quickly.

Also, you have a million switch layers - sometimes with only one sub layer... what's your thinking behind that?

Interpolation will always look mechanical - i would record the turn as an action and just call it when needed rather than alway shaving unused duplicates of your entire rig hidden away...

I'll check back later but you can start fiddling with the suggestions above.

Regards

oh the "Left turn (Interpolate only)" layer is the turn with everything the same so it interpolates. lol

[funksmaname]

Right
I've fixed your file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?fc2h8qtbajzd8hb

by seperating the gray side gray bit that was in the front plate into its own layer that i put under the arm layer - i moved the head layer to the top and the rest just works without needing to do any fancy depth sorting at all! (this is because the front plate covers the shoulder in the front view anyway)

I would deffinatley reccomed you try to improve your workflow though as far as seperating objects... i've never really been a fan of seperating things unnecessarily (i.e. one object per layer) - seperate things out of necessity and you won't end up with 10 switch layers and 3 vector layers to make up 1 character!