Flip Layer and Dinamics... Bug?

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Sun May 22, 2005 7:59 pm

When you Flip Horizontally/Vertically a Bone/Switch Layer with Bone Dinamics, that bones reacts suddenly producing extranges movements... and cause this is a "Step" function that the Dinamics would must ignore, I think that must be a BUG, I'm I right?

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:30 pm

LM? Can I know if this will be solved in the next (nearly?) Update? Only that... CIAO! (and thanks)

Post by **Lost Marble** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:54 pm

This is actually a very complex problem. Layer movement in general affects bone dynamics. And layer flipping is just a kind of layer movement. The bone dynamics algorithm has no way of knowing what caused the movement - it could be a layer flip in the same layer, or a layer flip in a parent layer several layers up.

By the time bone dynamics are computed, the layer movement has been boiled down into a matrix representation. There's no way for the bone dynamics algorithm to know whether a layer flip happened at all, or if it should be ignored, or is an intentional sudden movement.

I think the solution will come when we make bone dynamics "animateable". Then, you would turn off bone dynamics just before flipping a layer, and turn it back on after flipping the layer.

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:40 pm

THANKS for the answer! It's good to know... really I never thought that the problem be SO big, but well... I'll be very happy

when we can turn On/Off Bone Dinamics to solvent this so as another difficult situations... I hope we can see it in a a near future, CIAO!

BA · Post by BA » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:07 am

hey, now that we have animatable dynamics - has anyone made this solution work?

i just noticed this weird flipped bone business, and tried to solve it by momentarily turning off dynamics - but it still was wonky.

also - something really weird - i animated a layer that was flipped at the beginning. For the entire animation the dynamics were reversed, creating totally unnatural motion that was the opposite of what it should have been. Can this be fixed? Otherwise you can never used a character with dynamics as a flipped layer.

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:25 am

HI! Finally I have found several and peculiar solutions to solve this, but I don't know if I remember all and if I'll can explain me correctly... well I'll try...

The first solution for flip layer without jumps was turning off Dynamics exactly in the moment of the flip and turning on then, I remember that it worked fine to me, but now I think that can bring problems if the layer is in movement... emmm, well, maybe I should investigate again to see...
Well, and supposing that the above solution works fine, there is still the other problem, yes... about this other isuue I wrote this to in the past too

HERE And actually, when I rotate a layer in Y axis with Rotate Layer Y tool (to gradually turn a head i.e.), as I work usually with plane and simetrical forms into layers the solution for me was Flip the layer just when it brokes the 90º barrier (I mean, just between the moment when it seems a vertical line), it's the most simple way and all works fine to me, but I don't know how about asimetrical forms... Anyway I go on investigating just know about all of this, cause I'm reconstructing my characters and I'll wrote here anything that can help to solbe this problem, ejem! and... yes, I'll treat to explain me better for the next time...

BA · Post by BA » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:13 am

Hey Lost Marble -

we now have animated dynamics but still a serious problem remains. A flipped character with dynamics behaves totally wrong, as illustrated here:

Not being able to flip a character means twice the work, and big headaches... is there any chance of a solution???

mr. blaaa · Post by **mr. blaaa** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:17 pm

BA wrote:

Not sure if iam right but for me it seems like the character is flipped but the dynamics are still the same, only the vectors are flipped.
The "flipped" thing on top of the characters head seems to behave exactly like the same thing "unflipped" but they seem to be congruent...

Maybe one could make a "flip dynamics" script?

Post by **Lost Marble** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:24 pm

I'll look into it...

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:31 pm

THANK YOU LM!!!

You'll spare us a lot of headaches!

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:28 am

...LM? (HI!) I HOPE yes, but I'm not totally sure... if finally you get fix the flipped Dynamics Reverse bug, it'll be fixed too the problem when a layer be turned i.e. 180º or -180º in Y axis? I mean, a layer turning gradually with Rotate Layer Y tool instead use Flip Horizontally to flip the layer by step... I usually turn my heads gradually with "Rotate Layer Y" tool obtaining finally the same inversed dinamic results that with flipped layer and I don't have a real solution right now to solve the problem without strange and unespected redults, really it always have been a grave problem to me... Well, THANKS for all (you know...) and BYE!

BA · Post by BA » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:05 pm

*bump*

Hey LM, just wondering what the chances are that this'll be fixed in the next version...

If not, I'll have to start designing both left and right views for my characters. But if there is a chance that this can be solved, I may be able to hold out until then...

Let us know, if you can! Thanks.

Post by **Lost Marble** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:01 am

Yes, it's fixed, and the next version is coming really, really soon...

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:00 am

...ARRRGH!!!

THANK YOU LM!!! Really (really) I needed a good new at last in this strange/bad day... Thanks

BA · Post by BA » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:01 am

I just wet my pants.