Studio production issue - things to help series production.

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Rhoel
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Studio production issue - things to help series production.

Post by Rhoel »

The release of 5.3 has been a Godsend for production, resolving most of the serious issues, such as the fine lines. 5.3 is at a stage where it is of interest to larger TV production faciliteis.

There are a few re relatively simple inclusions/changes will make large productions managable more economical.

Batch renderer:
If you have 5 animatosrs working on a film, the last thing to do at night is to get the renderer going, using the machinery to paint up overnight so everyone can view the rushes first thing next day.

As such, having a batch renderer is neccessary - one where you can select scenes 2, 5, 5a, 7.3 and 21, point the renderer to the right output bin, set the avi settings to whatever (a setable default is desirable) then hitting the go button and go home.

The script for this should be too tricky.

Dedicated pathnames:
In a big production, the location of the files are different to that of the source material, and different to the output render bins etc.
At present, if you collect a file from the BG folder, the renderer tries to output to BG bin. Change the bin to the render area and Moho thinks the next scene you want to load is in the render bin.

Its a small issue but if you are working commercially, this is a real pain. Having the pathes set-able in some preset file or dialogue box, would be a big help.

Save/load Layer folders:
This I hope will not be a difficult one to do. When working on any scene, I always group the character into a dedicatred folder layer - all the lip sync, the body parts, blink cycles etc. I then scale the layer and position. The same with backgrounds and its graduated filters, mattes etc. What would be good is to be able to save the entire layer to disc, ready for reuse later.

The best way from a user point of view would be to have a right-click option on a layer so you can "save as ...". The layer diaologue box could also have a load layer button option (there is currently sufficient realestate on the bar to have one/two new option buttons.

For series work, this would be invaluable. It would be possilbe to inport an character layer and just change the lip-synce file, adjust scene length then output fast. My boss would like that economy :)

Lost files.
when you open a scene on a different machine to the one the scene was originally build, you nearly always get lost files. If you open the dialogue box to find the missing BG or whatever, there is no indication to the name of the orginal file. This is a real pain since often you know where the orginal folder was but not which file. Even if the name was included in the filename box (as Dreamweaver does), it would help.

The oother option is to have a full resources dialogue box, where lost file data is displayed and theoption to manually replace then. This is better since any compostior/animatior can at a glance see if there is any missing material (a lost graduated filer which is turned off in edit , is not obviously lost until the rendered image is viewed.

Okay thats it.

As commented else where, 5.3 is damn good - its crossed that point where it might be classed as a serious hobbiest/freelancer tool to one which a studio can use in a busy series environment. The coders should be proud of what they have achieved this time.

Rhoel
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T
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Post by T »

Perhaps I'm "talking out of my hat", but I think there *is* a batch renderer in Moho...

Also, and maybe I'm again misunderstanding, the third issue (saving a character in a folder layer) is currently possible. Put the character in a group layer, save, and you can import Moho object into any animation ready to rock.

I think your second and fourth requests are related, and I certainly wouldn't mind those feature requests.

If I misunderstood anything at all, please clarify, since I don't want LM to ignore your feature requests if I've muddied the waters with my reply.
"T"
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rylleman
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Post by rylleman »

I totally agree, I've been wishing for those thing as long as I've used Moho.
I think that with a few implementations of this kind LM can make Moho work a lot better in multi workstation productions, while still having an easy software for the hobbyists.
There is one point I think should be included in this wish list for larger productions;

Easier update of rigs:
In larger productions you often have the characters rigged in one scene and then imported into other scenes where they're animated. If you after you've animated the characters make changes to the character setup scenes it's very difficult to implement those changes into the different instances of the rig in the animation scenes.
A system where you can reference to other scenes instead of just importing them would be a fantastic help. Have a look at Maya for an example of how it could work.
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Rai López
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Post by Rai López »

TOTALLY agree too with you rylleman, I always have wished something like that and I think that the implementation of this could be one of that things that marks an "after and before" working with Moho... ESSENTIAL! (for a serious/competitive work, I think...)
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Post by Lost Marble »

Regarding batch rendering, there is a batch rendering mode in the Moho GUI - select the File->Batch Export menu command.

Even more interesting for a production environment is the command-line rendering mode. With this, you could easily set up a Moho render farm. More information is here:

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1318

Regarding lost files, you can avoid losing files when moving from machine to machine by organizing your files in a way that Moho can find them again. Basically, all media files (images, movies, sound files, 3D, etc.) should be in the same folder (or a sub-folder) as the Moho file. If they are located in a totally different place on disk, Moho may not be able to find them if you move your files to a different machine. More information about this here:

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1314
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Post by Rhoel »

Lost Marble wrote:Regarding batch rendering, there is a batch rendering mode in the Moho GUI - select the File->Batch Export menu command.
By golly, so there is a batch renderer ... Didn't realise that is what the exporter did. This is going to make life easier from now on.
Lost Marble wrote:Lost files, ... all media files (images, movies, sound files, 3D, etc.) should be in the same folder (or a sub-folder) as the Moho file. If they are located in a totally different place on disk, Moho may not be able to find them if you move your files to a different machine.
You have to consider too VPN working (multi-site productions) and restoring from tape archive - in a previous studio, we were commissioned to make a series 4 and 5 of something we had done 3 years previously: We needed all the colour models, stock backgrounds and reused animation. We discovered that after 3 years, we didn't have the same pathes to the Production disc. Our raid arrays were labelled Production01, Production02 etc. All colour models and series-wide data were always on Production01: Episodes data depended on which disc was free at a time.

Having a lost file recovery system or a user defined search path to didrectories is desirable. The current situation where Moho looks for the "next scene" in the folder you just output the render to is frustrating. Having user defined paths to "scenes lept at ...", "Render to ..." is an elegant solution. I agree with the sub-folder discipline - we try to do that already but reused animation from other scenes wrecks that: There isn't a resource manager which al;lows you to see what is used in any given sceme. Maybe the other option would be to have nn export scene to archive, with Moho stoing all the scene material in one folder/subfolders.

Purely for information: The last big UK series I worked on was 26 * 30 minutes: The shear mass of data was simply overwhelming. The management system and operator discipline had to be really rugged if we weren't to loose fiels, backgrounds or whatever.

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Rhoel
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Post by Rhoel »

Rhoel wrote:
Lost Marble wrote:Regarding batch rendering, there is a batch rendering mode in the Moho GUI - select the File->Batch Export menu command.
By golly, so there is a batch renderer ... Didn't realise that is what the exporter did. This is going to make life easier from now on.
And by golly, it renders all the scenes to the MOHO source folder without letting you point the render towards the render bin ... at full res avi, I just don't have the capacity on the moho bin to permit this.

oh well, it was worth the try. Back to manual render mode.

If anyone is considering Flash vs Moho for production:
This aftrernoon, the producer of our project changed his mind over the voice talent, returning to the original actor/s - this was, to put it mildly, a disappointment! I had already synced up all the scenes with the new voices he loved so much.

However, being the genius that I am, I had the foresight to generate all the lip sync files with the Papagayo: It's taken just one hour to re-import 12 scenes, change the switch layer back to the old sync files, adjust the scene length and queue for render.

Now had I done the scenes in Flash, both the producer and I would have discovered an entirely new depth of profane English ... not that I am prone to swearing :roll:

And people wonder why I like Moho so much.

Thank you Moho.
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Post by Lost Marble »

Rhoel wrote:oh well, it was worth the try. Back to manual render mode.
It sounds like you haven't tried command-line rendering yet. It sounds like you have lots of tools and scripts as part of your production, so using Moho from the command line shouldn't be too tough. Command line rendering lets you specify exactly where the source file comes from, and exactly where you want the rendered file(s) to go.
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Post by Rhoel »

Lost Marble wrote:
Rhoel wrote:oh well, it was worth the try. Back to manual render mode.
It sounds like you haven't tried command-line rendering yet. It sounds like you have lots of tools and scripts as part of your production, so using Moho from the command line shouldn't be too tough. Command line rendering lets you specify exactly where the source file comes from, and exactly where you want the rendered file(s) to go.
Okay ... I'll give it a go and see what happens
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Post by macton »

Lost files.
when you open a scene on a different machine to the one the scene was originally build, you nearly always get lost files. If you open the dialogue box to find the missing BG or whatever, there is no indication to the name of the orginal file. This is a real pain since often you know where the orginal folder was but not which file. Even if the name was included in the filename box (as Dreamweaver does), it would help.
Maybe I can help with this one.
You can use the list external files script to dump the full path of all the referenced images and 3D objects in the current Moho file.

See: http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0
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Post by Rai López »

MACTON RETURNS!!! :D :D :D ...HI! :) and THANK YOU VERY MUCH for this and for ALL! :) ...By the way, maybe a silly thing, but there is some way to can copy the LUA Window information for can paste or export where I want? I've always wonder it :roll: ...CIAO!

PD: :D
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Post by Rhoel »

Many thanks indeed for this link and for the heap of interesting looking scripts ... I'll work through them over then next couple of days.

Some will also be invaluable as a script-writing tutorial, to help me figure out how I write the batch renderer script - my main language is pascal/delphi (I did my programming finals in Cobol, which sort of dates me ... any suggestions that this makes me pre-historic are going to get flamed :-) ). I can read C++ and code a little PERL but Lua is still very new to me.

LM - should this collection of /link to scripts be added to the Moho scripting page? Here appear to be some gems there.
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Post by Rasheed »

A scripting language that is very similar to Lua is Python. It is possible to learn both languages at the same time. LM's Papagayo is written in Python, so you may benefit from learning these languages more than you think.
macton
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Post by macton »

Ramón López wrote:By the way, maybe a silly thing, but there is some way to can copy the LUA Window information for can paste or export where I want? I've always wonder it :roll: ...CIAO!
I don't think so. And I agree that it is very annoying. My suggestion is just to change whichever script you are writing to write to a file at the same time as it is printing to the screen.
macton
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Re: Studio production issue - things to help series producti

Post by macton »

Rhoel wrote: Lost files.
when you open a scene on a different machine to the one the scene was originally build, you nearly always get lost files. If you open the dialogue box to find the missing BG or whatever, there is no indication to the name of the orginal file. This is a real pain since often you know where the orginal folder was but not which file. Even if the name was included in the filename box (as Dreamweaver does), it would help.
I added another script that might help. It (recursively) searches for any broken image links in the directory you specify.

See "Relink Lost Images" script
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... highlight=

See also this thread:
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... 6712#16712
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