Fixing intersection of two smart dial bones

[srafciger]

Hello, I'm still relatively new to Moho, so I have some questions about little more advanced character rigging.

To be more precise, I'm creating character rig which should feature head rotation- both vertical and horizontal. These extreme poses work fine (as you can see in images below).





I come to problem when i manipulate both side and vertical head turn bones. Ex. when I move side rotation bone to the left, and vertical rotation to top. I get this:


Or this for situation where head is turned downwards:


The only way I know how to do this is with smart bone actions, but if I move both bones in one action the same will happen in mainline (both bones will move simultaneously).

My question is: Can you tell me how to fix this problem with smart bone actions or some other method? Or even, can you point me to some tutorials that deal with this, as I couldn't find any that suit my needs?

Thanks

[chucky]

Moho does not support this (yet). The more people who request this to support, the sooner it might be implemented.
Many, many people would love to see this feature.
Of course you could make another bone, which takes care of the re positions, just watch out for the other bones. ."
Yup it all gets a bit messy without, the correctional actions we would love.

[Greenlaw]

Yes, this is a problem.

What I usually do for the head is I animate only x movements in the turn SBD and only y movements in the tilt SBD. This prevents conflicts but it can get very tricky to setup for some characters, and probably impossible for some. I find it's often possible if I have enough points strategically placed in the paths. But, yeah, this type of setup really needs to be easier than that.

Where this kind of conflict also bites me is when I need realistic human eyes that blink--I can make the eyes morph its shape from front to profile versions but then the blink SBD I set up for the front view doesn't work for the profile eyes shape. To work around this, I may set up different eye drawings that can blink in profile mode and then I to avoid animating a blink in the middle of turns. (i.e., keeping the eyes fully closed or open for most of the turn.)

Sometimes I'll make separate SBDs for front and profile views but this isn't ideal for 'in turn' animations either.

Anyway, I think it's possible to do what you want with your character.

Try this: I can often minimize or elmininate the x/y conflicts by putting some of the animation into layer or group transforms or binding the face elements to bones that move with the SBD actions. This separates the point animation from layer/bones translations, which can really help make this easier and more predictable.

[srafciger]

Thanks guys for your replies.

I suspected there is still no feature that could fix this easily, but I'll try experimenting with some methods you mentioned.

[will_f]

I created a head turn for this character and was having a hard time getting the eyelids to stay in position over the eyes as the head turned.

I found success by doing what I now see Greenlaw eluding to above and separating out what can be animated by layer motion from the point motion needed for more specific things.

I had the idea to handle eyelid size, position and perspective on the headturn smart bone with only layer animation, saving the point animation for the blinks on a separate smart bone dial.

I used layer tools to keep the eyelids in place and keep them the right size, and used layer skewing tools to keep them in perspective. The actual up and down motion of the lids is done with point motion on separate smart bones for each eye, which are bound to the skull bone, as are the lids themselves.

I could add a lower lid using the same principles, but this character is secondary so I have to resist the urge to make it more detailed.


Edited to add: My suggestion more broadly is to use layer motion to move facial features around during a head turn, keep them in position and perspective with layer tools only, and then use point motion where necessary on other smart bones, As has been said, not all rigs are going to work this way.

My other suggestion related to your predicament specifically is that you might throw in a correction smart-bone, so that when you have both other bones (look left, look up) turned over that way, you can use that dial and correct the flaw in the face profile line. I agree it's an inelegant solution.

Also, wow. Chucky's video below is very helpful. It's along the lines of what I suggested but this looks much more smooth.

[vealti]

A little late but I was running into the same issue. Didn't find an answer, everything was only 1 axis turns. After weeks of searching came across this thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27453&hilit=dueyftw

I'm using the first example by dkwroot and so far it seems to be working well (still working on it). One thing I had to do was limit my extreme positions though. I wanted a 180 degree turn but that seems to be too much, so had to settle for more of a 3/4 view left and right. The second example by Lychee looks good too but I couldn't get it to work right on my character.

[chucky]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31183&p=177308&e=177308
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