returned back to 2.5

[chucky]

It is true that 13.5.2 is very particular about PSD having unique names for all layers.
If not, it often just won't open properly.

I think it's time to to sit back and watch a few more tutorials, read the manual and collect your thoughts, House10.
Then open Moho again and try to be more methodical.
It can see by this post that there must be inconsistencies in your process.
Are you moving the PSD or changing it?
Have you named all the layers?

Don't try all the techniques at once and don't be in a super hurry.
Stay calm and try one thing at a time.
It's not like a DAW where you can just stack channels, tracks vsts and effects with abandon, and switch the order and source without breaking things.

Listen and learn first and be patient.
These crashes won't happen.

I hope you are on a decent PC, if you are on and old laptop, with old drivers that's getting very hot, it could be a system issue.

[Greenlaw]

If you're creating layered art in Photoshop (or comparable paint program) for Moho, it's not necessary to export that art as a PSD for Moho. it. In fact, I avoided using PSD files directly for many years because of updating issues I've discussed elsewhere. (To be fair, LM has begun to solve these issues with 13.5.2, and in my opinion, they're on the right track.)

Anyway, the approach I usually take is to do my work in Photoshop and then use this free third-party plugin called Photoshop Export Layers To Files Fast to export my layers for Moho. This is an excellent plugin that exports all visible layers as PNG, with or without alpha, cropped or uncropped, with extra margins...in short, it pretty much export PNGs any way you need them. The tool even has the ability to use custom naming conventions, destinations, and it can also overwrite existing files. Once I have my settings, it's just launch and go, and I have new PNG layers. If the images are already imported to Moho, Moho will update the images as you change and overwrite them.

The native Photoshop layers exporter cannot do many of these things as easily or efficiently, and it's much slower than using Photoshop Export Layers To Files Fast.

The reason I prefer this method is that, under-the-hood, it's much simpler than working with the PSD directly so it's less likely to fail. I can also mix it with different versions of the PSD file without worrying about layer IDs breaking what I already have in Moho. When only consistent file names and locations are involved, the connection between Photoshop and Moho remains unbroken, even when layers are merged, deleted and created, and replaced.

If you're having trouble with using PSD, I highly recommend using the above method. It's the method I've used for every TV shows I worked on where bitmap layers from Photoshop were used for character art.

Regardless of the method you use, you must carefully name items as you create them, preferably using a logical naming convention. This extends not only to layers but also bones and Actions. For me, I can literally use hundreds of layers, bones, and Smart Bone Actions in my rigs, and if I don't carefully name these items, it would be impossible to maintain and edit, or even animate these rigs. I practice this not just in Moho but pretty much any 2D, 3D or compositing program. Get in the habit of carefully naming items and you will thank yourself for the effort later.

If you're not using Photoshop but a compatible PSD program instead, you still need to name your layers. Also, check if your program has a way to export individual layers PNG. Krita, for example, has a built-in script that can do this too (see Tools>Scripts>Export Layers). It's not nearly as robust as the one I described for Photoshop but it does the job.

Hope this helps.

IMO, the new mesh tools in 13.5.2 will make it hard for me to switch back to an earlier version--they really are awesome! But I should confess, I haven't started using 13.5.2 for full-on production work yet, so hopefully my thought on this isn't too premature.

[Greenlaw]

Regarding using a laptop for Moho, way back when, I used a small and fairly low-powered (by today's standards,) HP tm2 hybrid tablet/laptop to make Scareplane, and I had no performance issues with Moho while working on that project.

Moho is actually pretty efficient and speedy for what it does, but it requires you to be aware of how you're using the devices memory and processor as you work on the project. Know your tools.

Today, I use a significantly more powerful laptop computer, but I still practice carefully naming and optimizing my assets for Moho. The time I spend upfront planning and prepping how I'm going to use a program always pays off when I'm actually using it during production.

Hope this helps.

[chucky]

I agree with Greenlaw you are better off working with pngs separated before Import, that's the way I have mostly worked in the past.

13.5.2 actually IS on the right track, as you can update the PSD with more layers.
Maybe Moho should block the file from being opened with a warning about naming layers before opening ( that's what I think anyway) to avoid the clear and understandable confusion that you are experiencing.
What you are doing right now in the previous version is fine, until you wish to change any PSD you are using, then your situation will change dramatically , the file will be broken and there will be gnashing of teeth.

Take the advice you get here seriously, it comes from experience and careful learning.
Greenlaw animates for Dreamworks, he knows what he's talking about.

[Mike Roberts]

I'm still having the issue where the PDSs change size if I update them. I'm in 13.5.2. Am I maybe importing it wrong?

[synthsin75]

I'm still having the issue where the PDSs change size if I update them. I'm in 13.5.2. Am I maybe importing it wrong?

If you initially import the images at one project dimension and then change dimensions, updating will not take into account that change. So you want to start at your final project dimensions, if possible.

[Mike Roberts]

makes sense. I thought that's how it always worked, however.

[Greenlaw]

Hmm...I just ran a couple of tests and found some interesting results. Not sure if this is helpful to anyone.

I created a PSD file with a Circle and a Square in the center, and with a healthy margin around the image. I saved this and also exported a PNG version using the free Save Layers Fast script I described earlier. Then I imported both the PSD and PNG versions of the layers into Moho. As expected, they both looked identical.

Next I tried reducing the resolution 50% in Photoshop. This has no effect on the PNG files other than the resolution was chunkier...again, as expected...but the PSD version actually scaled down in size by 50%. I guess that should be expected too, because as far as Photoshop is concerned, the image is half it's size now. In their own way, they're both are technically correct behavior, but of course this depends on what you want to happen. I was a bit surprised that the behavior between the two formats is different though.

I think this the difference has to do with how the images are saved: with PSD layers, each layer is automatically cropped to the boundaries of the visible pixels. Because of this, I think Moho gets confused because the boundary doesn't match the original aspect of the original image. The PNGs used the Do Not Crop option, so every layer in the import has the same boundaries as the original image, which is probably why Moho is able maintain the relative size to the project.

This makes me wonder if Moho should have the option to disable the autocropping for imported PSD layers.

Personally, I wish Moho's Cropping tool had an Autocrop button so I can do this easily and non-destructively inside Moho. Of course, this kind of cropping is not compatible with Smart Meshes, so it might have limited uses for most users. (I sill wish I had this though.)

I'm not sure yet but one possible advantage with the PSD method is that it might handle changing proportions of the bounding area better (like repainting an image in a layer to make it taller or wider.) TBD.

Reset: I regressed to the 100% versions of the PSD and PNG images. I had to open and close the Moho project to force the PSD to update, but both sets of images returned to identical sizes again.

Next I scaled the project size to double resolution. As expected, this did not affect the relative sizes of either PNG or PSD images/layers to the project or to each other. Scaling the project to half the original size also had no effect on the relative sizes.

Anyway, just some stuff to think about. Obviously, some of the above may affect your decision between using PSD or PNG.

[Greenlaw]

Oh, I forgot to mention one potentially big advantage with PSD: as mentioned, it crops the images to their smallest boundaries but it also places the images exactly where they were relative to the original canvas size in Photoshop.

If I were to save the PNG images using the Trim>Each Layer option in the Save Fast script, the images will be copped like the Photoshop images but they will also be imported to the center of the screen and you may need to position the images manually to their correct locations. (Tip: When I use PNG this way, I import a reference image in the background to help me reposition them.) This is why I used to import with no cropping and I would use Moho's Crop tool to crop the images after import (and why I wanted the autocrop button.)

However, with the new and improved Layered PSD system, I might switch to PSD just for this reason...but I need to try using PSD to a 'production level' test first. TBD.

Getting back to comments I recently made elsewhere about creating a lot of little tests before committing to to using a new feature in actual production work, THIS is what I'm talking about. You don't want to run into problems when you're on a deadline.

[chucky]

Hey Dennis, there's a gimp script that turns PSDs into actual moho files with PNG layers, fully cropped and laid out in their correct space, It will dig it out for you.
This is the method I always used.
Sure there was an extra little visit to gimp ( that's all I ever used it for) but the results were perfect.
I really want to start using the new psd method for actual production.
I wonder if there's a utility that can give all layers unique names, ( taking the group names as a prefix for the auto-named line/colour layer-particularly in animated sequences)

I'm wondering about the crop size, what about a feature improvement that maintains the PSD group size proportionately like this?
Use base layer as size.
Then just have a plain base colour at full crop to guide the boundaries.

[Greenlaw]

That sounds pretty cool Chucky!

How does that work though? Does it output a Moho file along with the PNG output?

[chucky]

Yes it does..
I can't find that script anywhere , I've been looking for hours.
I couldn't have done Tern Tale or any of my early image based work including the sugar clip and crustacea without it.
I guess when 13 introduced convert PSD to png on import I forgot about it as it was faster even though it didn't crop.

Well I just guess We'll have to hope for a in app conversion to return to moho.

[Greenlaw]

There's an old official Moho script for Photoshop that exports layers and saves a file in the Moho format. (See [drive]:\content\Moho\Moho 13.5.2\Moho Pro\Extra Files\Export Layers To Moho.jsx) There was some reason I didn't use it and instead opted to reposition my imports in Moho manually, but I don't remember what that reason was right now. I'll revisit this script this morning and jog some brain cells.

[Greenlaw]

I just tried it and, yes, it does exactly that but directly from Photoshop. For example: I roughly sketched a layered character art in Photoshop with head, body, arms, and legs, and then ran the script. What I got was an Anime Studio file (.anme) and an Images folder with cropped PNG files. The Anime Studio file imports and automatically converts to Moho 13.5.2 format just fine.

Now, if I can only remember why I didn't like this script.

If I have time today, I'll play around with it and see if whatever that reason was is still valid. I think it had something to do with replacing images or the lack of user settings like the ones I commonly adjust in the Export Layers From Photoshop Fast script. (I'm guessing the reason has to do with this latter point, and it was probably related to a specific production at the time. TBD.)

I'm wondering, does GIMP run Photoshop scripts? If it can, maybe this is the script you remember? (Just checked and probably not. I don't think GIMP supports .jsx.)

Anyway, I'm going to continue working with the new/improved PSD importer, but I'm also going to see if I can work with this old script as an alternative PNG method.

[Greenlaw]

In an effort to avoid getting the conversion step in 13.5.2, I tried replacing '.anme' with '.moho' within the script. I thought this might be a quick fix but unfortunately it's not that simple. After making this change in the script I now get a .json error in Moho.

I switched back to the original script, but it's really no big deal because you can tell Moho 13.5.2 to stop asking and just do it anyway.

Just an FYI in case anybody was thinking of trying that.