Scale issues with groups

[Gibble]

Hey Gang!

I created a single eye (Right eye) and then scaled it to -100 to make the left eye. {See #1 below]
This works fine until the eyes are put into a Smart Action Timeline [See #2 below]. Any scale applied to the Eye group is removed.
This also happens when I apply Flip Horizontal to the Layer Settings. The flipping doesn't apply within the Smart Action Timeline either.

Q: How do I make a duplicated asset look correct within the Smart Timeline? Ex. Mirrored and still looking like a left-eye.
Or do I need to build a brand new left eye altogether?

[synthsin75]

Are you scaling and flipping on frame zero?

[Gibble]

Thanks for jumping in, synthsin75. To answer your question:
Yes, all transformations are on frame 0 on the main timeline.
But when I go to frame 0 on the sub-timeline of the Smart Bone Action, those transformations no longer exist. Let me show you both different timelines at frame 0:

Main Timeline: Frame 0 (see below):

Smart Action Timeline: Frame 0 (see below):
As you'll see below, any transformations that were on the Group (not layer) have been removed for both eyes.

[synthsin75]

You'll probably need to check the group timeline in the action for any keyframes. The pictures only show the bone layer timeline.

[Gibble]

Thanks for suggesting that, synthsin75.
I just checked the Group Timeline and there aren't any keyframes on the Group or any of the sublayers anywhere.

[Gibble]

UPDATE: I'm still not sure what the issue was- but I ended up just recreating the eyes as it was easier to do that than solve the above issues.
Thanks for your input, synthsin75.
Consider this thread closed though

[Greenlaw]

Just a thought for future reference: I was running into something similar today, and it was making me nuts because I was certain I had some unintended keyframes in my shapes in a Smart Bone Action, but I didn't see any there.

After a hour or so of messing around, it finally dawned on me that the deformation was not cause by an unintended keyframe in Points in the Smart Bone Action but an unintended keyframe in a Bone that the points were bound to. Agh!

So, in my case, I had the right idea; I was just looking in the wrong place.

[Gibble]

Thanks for sharing that, DR. I think that was very likely the culprit in this situation as well.
The eyes were from another character originally (then deformed, edited) but my assumption was that there was still an influence that existed that caused these issues.

Freeze Transformations ?:
In the 3D world [Maya], there is a function called 'Freeze Transformations' that allows you to zero out an asset after it has been deformed.
Ex. If you duplicate an object (an eye) and then deform it via scale, translation, etc to make the opposite eye, you can then set all the positions, scale, and Angle of the new eye back to 0 by selecting 'freeze transformation' and it'd treat the edited asset as if it was created like that and everything was 0 now and it was created in that exact spot.
Does a similar function within Moho??

[Greenlaw]

Not natively, but A.Evseeva has a couple of 'Reset' scripts over in Mohoscripts.com.

The one for Points has prevented a few headaches for me. It resets the layer origin and transforms the points to remain visually the same. This is much nicer than trying to do this manually.

[Gibble]

Thanks for the tip on MohoScripts.com, DR!
I'll check that out next but that's likely what I'm looking for.
As I am getting deeper into Moho, I think getting into scripts is the next natural step. Thanks for leading me there, DR!

Other Scripts:
I was also wondering if there script to 'break connections' from any previously referenced object for a duplicated object.
That said, I think the 'Bone > Release Layer and Points' might be all I need to do this too.

[Greenlaw]

I was also wondering if there script to 'break connections' from any previously referenced object for a duplicated object.

You can right-click on any Reference layer and choose Break Layer Reference. This keeps any existing keyframes for you to modify or delete. This is a one way street, though; you can't reconnect a broken Reference layer.

If you keyframe anything in a Reference layer, that can break the connection for that keyframed item. Then you can edit or remove the keyframes for that item to be different from the original.

If you keyframe everything, that breaks the connection with everything that's been keyframes. In this case, you may as well choose Break Layer Reference, unless you still intend to resync some or all of the Reference.

You can resync any keyframed channel by right-clicking over the channel's icon and selecting Sync. Note that you will lose any new keyframes as they will be replaced by the original layer's keyframes.

If you want everything in the Reference layer to be re-synced to the original layer, right-click over the layer and choose Sync All Channels To Original.

If the Reference layer is a Parent layer containing child reference layers, all the layers will be synced. If you sync a child layer, then only the child and its descendants will get synced.

I haven't fully tested this, but I imagine you can get creative with how this system works by temporarily moving the layers outside of the hierarchy before syncing them.

Hope this helps.