Proper timeline workflow when adding elements

[Nicohk92]

I'm still banging my head on the same workflow basics when my scenes get complex.

Let's say I'm working on the scene, and more specifically what happens around frame 300. I realize I need to add a text label with a pointing arrow there to indicated something.

So I go to frame 0 create a text label, a background for it, an arrow and put all that in a group.

And then what, do I:

A. Turn off visibility for the label group, go to frame 300 and turn it back on, then do my positioning and reveal in / reveal out animations there?

B. Mute my camera animation, do my label animations at the beginning of the timeline, then unmute my camera animation, go to sequencer and drag the label track to start at frame 300, then do my final positioning there?

Sometimes I wish we could move frame 0 per layer even temporarily so to create directly where we need the element. That's not possible is it?

[SimplSam]

Alternatively, if you have already setup a bunch of stuff, you can create that new asset in a new project (don't need to save), group if desired, then Edit > Copy Layer, change doc, Edit > Paste Layer.

I try to avoid big sequence changes, as it always catches me out when frame 0 is not where I expect. So I would tend to towards hide/unhide.

[Nicohk92]

That's an idea.

But what do you mean by

when frame 0 is not where I expect

You move frame 0 around? You can do that?

[Greenlaw]

Just use the Toggle Frame Zero button. This sends you to 0 so you can make your edit; clicking it again sends you back to where you were (i.e., frame 300.)

Space Tommy: Critical Mission is a good example where I frequently used Toggle Frame Zero because it has multiple physics and particle simulations that run a couple of hundred frames, and I used different regions of the simulation for different shots.

For quickly hiding and showing selections of layers and groups, I use Layer Comps. I mainly use it for rendering passes, but it's also useful during rigging and for performance optimization during animation.

[SimplSam]

You move frame 0 around? You can do that?

The main Frame 0 is still frame 0. You will find that when you move a Layer in sequence, it will have that little green triangle arrow, and the frame before that is the zero frame of that layer. You can set everything 'default' there - like frame 0 when the layer is not shifted in sequence.

Now if a layer is moved in sequence, and you go to the main frame 0 - it will appear that you are not able to change keyframeable properties like scale, rotation, transform etc, even though they do get changed and keyframed. They just won't be shown, and that was the issue I have - when I forget that a layer is shifted, and I try to edit at main frame 0.

[Nicohk92]

it will have that little green triangle arrow, and the frame before that is the zero frame of that layer.

Gosh I had no idea. that changes everything. So I should work with the sequencer a lot more.
Do you know if there's a shortcut to take the playhead to the green start of of a shifted track? Something similar to the toggle frame zero button for example.

Just use the Toggle Frame Zero button. This sends you to 0 so you can make your edit; clicking it again sends you back to where you were (i.e., frame 300.)

I have been doing that. Mainly cause default positioning must be in relation to what's going on in the scene at whatever place in time.
And so I keep for example positioning at frame x, copying layer translation keyframe, toggling to frame 0, pasting that keyframe, toggling back to x frame.
A great feature would be a "copy to frame 0" shortcut of some sort so we don't have to do that back and forth every 2 seconds.

[Nicohk92]

it's also useful during rigging and for performance optimization during animation.

As my scene is getting pretty crowded, I've had no choice but to get into layer comps.

Saving my file alone takes between 5 and 10 seconds.

[Nicohk92]

I progressed with that particular scene. It's about 1000 frames long, quite complex with many particle objects. So much so that I have to resort to layer comps to work on different parts and keep Moho running smoothly.

However I am now working on a new scene that takes place later in the film, but in the exact same environment and many of the same actors. I would like to avoid referencing things across files, and so I'd like to simply work off the very same file, only 1000 frames later in the timeline.

So what is my best option:

A: Create a partial playback segment between frame 1000 and say, frame 2000, and jump back and forth between there and frame 0

B: Use the sequencer to push backward the group where everything is, way back before frame 0, so that I can pick up my new scene around frame 1. The only problem here is that my camera moves won't be pushed backward with the group. I would have to do it separately and risk a mess.

What would you do in that situation?

Thanks in advance.

[slowtiger]

Definitely duplicate the file, save under different name, erase all animation and objects you don't need in that scene, and work from that.

[Nicohk92]

Yeah but then if I need to make a change to one element, I need to do it in both files.. Then again, maybe it'll still be easier

[slowtiger]

As a general rule one shouldn't start animating unless all elements are designed and rigged ...

Of couse sometimes you need to change some detail later (or the client demands changes, bleargh). In such a case I just import this element from one project file to another. I like my project files small and clean, so editing goes smoothly and fast. Don't ever bow to temptation and try to cram everything in just one file, it's difficult to navigate and will swallow your time by becoming unresponsive and slow.

I have some experience in Moho projects of more than 1 minute (1500 frames): try to avoid these. In planning, decide how you can cut up stuff in smaller chunks which will be combined in editing.

[Daxel]

Both solutions to that problem have their pros and their cons. In my tests, animation in the timeline (tested with a huge file) didn't have a big impact in workspace performance or editing performance, and that's why I have used the "one file for many animations" approach a few times. But of course if the other animations require you to add backgrounds, assets, characters, etc that has a performance cost.

However, I think it's easier to have slowdowns on files with lots of animations just because the more time you spend on a file, the chances of breaking something go up. In that sense, references getting corrupted are the most common cause of poor editing performance.

[Nicohk92]

All components are the same between the two scenes, except perhaps for a couple new actors.

So I first tried the one file approach, relying on layer comps to unburden the system. While that worked for the most part, I still had too many slow downs, especially when jumping back and forth from frame 0 to frame 1000 something.

So I created a new file and brought in references from the other scene as needed. Way faster now. I just hope I won't face broken refs, and won't have too many design revisions, which I may now have to do on two files instead of one.