Layer order animation trouble - help another noob [solved - mute channel mistake]

[SuddenlyZach]

Hey learning Moho and animated layer order is really baffling me. Please help me solve this problem. I've watched a few tutorials, and browsed through the forums here, and I think I understand how its SUPOSED to work, but I think I've broken something while experimenting.

Problem: The layers are locked in place when I try to reorder them. I've been building a rig, and trying to solve layer order for arm movements. I was trying to put the layer order animation into a smart action, but realized what I wanted was too complicated for a single smart action. I deleted the action, and its associated bone and now I'm back in the mainline, trying to animate the layer order of my characters arms, but nothing works - the layers are locked in their position.

Hypothesis: I think somewhere I don't know about, there must be another keyframe controlling the layer order? But I've checked all my remaining actions and there don't seem to be any keyframes on the group I'm trying to animate.

Details:
I can show you my screen at the problem area.


So here's all my actions, and my layers. The group "Character 1" is where I'm trying to add a layer order animation. I tried to drag "L Hand" and "L Forearm" to the bottom of the layer order on frame 5, but they did not move! It did create a keyframe when I dragged the layers, but no reordering occurred. This is why I believe theres another keyframe somewhere controlling the layers. But I'm stumped here. I checked my five actions - clicking into them and clicking the "character 1" group, scanning for keyframes but I didn't see any... Anyone wise ones out there see what I'm missing? Again, I did have more smart actions, trying to control the layer order, but I deleted them. Ghost keyframes? Did I miss something?

One tutorial I watched taught me that the layers themselves don't know their order, the group records it and sets it, and that each group can only be controlled by one action/timeline or it gets messed up. That's whats leading me to my hypothesis right now.

p.s. The animation isn't supposed to make anatomical sense right now. I just need a solution for when the arms move in front or behind the body. I'm trying to explore animating that change in the main line now.

[slowtiger]

In the layer "Character 1", check "animated layer order" in the "layer" tab.

[Greenlaw]

My guess is that you've keyframed your layer order in a Smart Bone Action, and this is overriding your ability to manually keyframe the layer order in the Mainline. When the Action is 'inactive,' you can set the layer order manually, but once it's activated (i.e., bone is rotated), the Action will take over in the Mainline.

If this is the case, there are a couple of ways to work around this issue.

Option #1. The obvious solution is to avoid doing both.

If this happened accidentally, you must find where the Smart Bone is taking over the Layer Order keyframing and remove the keyframe(s).

If this setup was intentional, ask yourself if you really need a Smart Bone to change the layer order. In many situations, it's easy enough to move a layer up and down manually and using a Smart Bone to do this is unnecessary. For most of my rigs, I don't bother setting up a Smart Bone for this. I just Alt R-Click on the art in the Working Area to select its layer (or Shift+Alt R-click to select its parent group) and then drag the layer to this new position.

Option #2. If you really need the flexibility to use a Smart Bone for Animated Layer Order AND manually override the layer order, it's better to simulate the layer order change controlled by the Smart Bone. I do this by making duplicate or reference copy of the layer I want to animate, place the duplicate in the other layer order positions, and then set up the Smart Bone to control the Visible property (not Opacity,) to hide/reveal the layer at different layer positions. The result is the same as when you use Animated Layer Order, but because actual Animated Layer Order is not controlled by the Smart Bone, I can manually keyframe Animated Layer Order when needed.

Hope this helps.

[SuddenlyZach]

In the layer "Character 1", check "animated layer order" in the "layer" tab.

Checked! It is on. Good thought though.

[SuddenlyZach]

My guess is that you've keyframed your layer order in a Smart Bone Action, and this is overriding your ability to manually keyframe the layer order in the Mainline. When the Action is 'inactive,' you can set the layer order manually, but once it's activated (i.e., bone is rotated), the Action will take over in the Mainline.

If this is the case, there are a couple of ways to work around this issue.

Option #1. The obvious solution is to avoid doing both.

If this happened accidentally, you must find where the Smart Bone is taking over the Layer Order keyframing and remove the keyframe(s).

If this setup was intentional, ask yourself if you really need a Smart Bone to change the layer order. In many situations, it's easy enough to move a layer up and down manually and using a Smart Bone to do this is unnecessary. For most of my rigs, I don't bother setting up a Smart Bone for this. I just Alt R-Click on the art in the Working Area to select its layer (or Shift+Alt R-click to select its parent group) and then drag the layer to this new position.

Option #2. If you really need the flexibility to use a Smart Bone for Animated Layer Order AND manually override the layer order, it's better to simulate the layer order change controlled by the Smart Bone. I do this by making duplicate or reference copy of the layer I want to animate, place the duplicate in the other layer order positions, and then set up the Smart Bone to control the Visible property (not Opacity,) to hide/reveal the layer at different layer positions. The result is the same as when you use Animated Layer Order, but because actual Animated Layer Order is not controlled by the Smart Bone, I can manually keyframe Animated Layer Order when needed.

Hope this helps.

Ok so I found out I CAN re order the layers on frame 0. But not on any other frame.

So let's assume its option 1, and there's a rogue keyframe. Is there somewhere crazy it would be? I've checked each of my actions here (see ss below), and all my timelines are clear. Is there a way to find keyframes easier? Is there a window I need to open? or a hotkey for "show all keyframes?" Is there another tab where an action would show up that's not here??

Is it possible I've run into a bug?

Ultimately I think you are right and I don't need a smart bone for this rig. But don't wanna have to rebuild my whole file, just cause I broke something with my layer order.

[SuddenlyZach]

I FIGURED IT OUT!

I never knew about "Mute keyframes" ...



Noob moment!

Thank's to both of you for replying!

[Greenlaw]

Alright! I'm glad you got it figured out.

Ok so I found out I CAN re order the layers on frame 0. But not on any other frame.

BTW, just because you can manually reorder the layers at frame 0 does not mean there isn't a rogue keyframe in a Smart Bone Action because Smart Bone Actions are inactive on frame zero. Just something to be aware of in case this situation comes up in the future.

Good luck!

[SuddenlyZach]

Alright! I'm glad you got it figured out.

BTW, just because you manually reorder the layers at frame 0, does not mean there isn't a rogue keyframe in a Smart Bone Action because Smart Bone Actions are inactive on frame zero. Just something to be aware of in case this situation comes up in the future.

Good luck!

Good to know! Thanks again!