Question about gradients

human · Post by **human** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:46 pm

Need some advice about whether to include gradients in my model sheet. Such as here:

So, okay, we all like gradients, and they lend depth by suggesting light falling on a 3d object.

(Also, we know that there are problems importing Illustrator gradients into AS, but that's not the issue here.)

The fundamental question I have is whether the believablity of a gradient baked into a model can survive animation through space--or, to be more specific, how much motion?

If you move your shape too much, I assume that the directionality of the gradient in the morphed object fails to keep synch with our visual expectations about directional shading. Therefore the gradient would draw attention to itself as a gimmick, right?

And what's the point of having a model sheet if it's limited to a narrow range of motion?

I mean, it's not practical to actually animate gradients, is it?

Doesn't all this mean that you need to rule out gradients from the model sheet from the outset?

byanfu · Post by **byanfu** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Nice Strong pose, I like it.

My personal feeling is that its great for backgrounds and stills, but trying to manage the gradients in animation would be quite time consuming. One interesting use of gradients on animated characters can be seen in Grey Kids Pepsi animation. You can see a slight gradients on the characters face that really is a nice touch and gives them a lot more depth. Its nice and subtle.

http://www.e-frontier.com/article/artic ... 932/1/811/

Patrick McClintock · Post by **Patrick McClintock** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:02 am

Human,
I have had trouble with gradients fading or changing over animation time.
I don't know how to avoid this, perhaps a much wiser user will offer a solution.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:48 am

The thing with gradients or shadows in 2D animation is that they need as much attention as every other movement. Even more: the character and his shadows need to share the very same keyframes - otherwise the shadow gets a life of its own. I know this from experience when I had to animate character shadows on paper, long ago.

This said, I strongly suggest not to include shadows or gradients into your regular characters. Save its use to special effects or for scenes where you really need it.

Gnaws · Post by **Gnaws** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:58 am

byanfu wrote:One interesting use of gradients on animated characters can be seen in Grey Kids Pepsi animation. You can see a slight gradients on the characters face that really is a nice touch and gives them a lot more depth.

Excellent example. I've tried to pry out of him how they do that. From what I understand it's an effect they apply in Combustion. I've been trying to emulate that in After Effects....with no success.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:56 am

Ah yes the problematic gradient.

In your example the gradients are so FANTASTICLY BEAUTIFUL it would be a shame not to go the extra effort to make them work...

... but... I will leave that decision up to you. It is going to be extra work.

I have found that I can use halo or soft edge effects in place of gradients. The halo and soft edge follow the shape so to speak. It won't change orientation and with masking it can be used quite well.

For instance instead of a gradient fill on the arms use a "box" shape with a really large soft edge that is masked by the arm shape.

The gradient of the arm will "stay" with it. Or it can be moved or rotated independently. Unlike a gradient effect which stays at the same angle all the time and requires constant keyframing to keep it oriented.

-vern

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:28 am

Here are some samples using soft edge and halo for gradients in animated characters. Not exactly like yours but the technique would work.

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/toonbabe3.mov

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/larry8.mov
--------------

Here is a sample of a soft edge shape masked and set to multiply on another layer shape. Multiply is used so the stroke shows through the soft edge gradient. All is moved with bones so the "gradient" doesn't need to be keyed or moved unless needed.

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/soft ... t_fill.mov

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/soft ... _fill.moho

The gradient shape is a simplified version of the arm shape that extends beyond it. This shape can be point animated or even controlled with other bones using constraints to automate "shifting light". I've not done that yet but I know enough about bone constraints by now to know it is doable.

-vern

Gnaws · Post by **Gnaws** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:34 pm

heyvern wrote:Here is a sample of a soft edge shape masked and set to multiply on another layer shape. Multiply is used so the stroke shows through the soft edge gradient. All is moved with bones so the "gradient" doesn't need to be keyed or moved unless needed.

<stands up applauding. then weeps>

Thank You, Vern. This is so cool.

human · Post by **human** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:48 pm

Thanks indeed to you all.

As for Vern, tho: "you DA MAAAAN."

(Note to those of you with English as a second language: this is an extravagantly idiomatic phrase. It loosely translates to: I admire you.)

PS: Who is the soul of your babe? Katherine Heburn, by any chance?

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:54 am

The audio of the girl is Margaret Sullavan in a clip from the movie "Shop Around The Corner" with Jimmy Stewart. I highly recommend this movie. Much better in my opinion than the remake "You've Got Mail" with Tom Hanks... just my opinion of course.

-vern

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:12 pm

@human: As far as I know gradient fill properties is not animatable. Anyway you should take care with efects in fills. See this topic. Even altough the gradient is not animatable you can obtain vibrations of you move the points around.

@heyven:
1.a) Woooaaaww lovely girl!. I have seen this face before... mmmm
1.b) Aaaah Larry The Liger.... amazing.. What was about Larry's project?

2) Coooool tip man!! thanks for share.

Genete

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:17 pm

Holy Prap!
Thats the most useful tip i read all day!
Check out what i did with it... going to do a little animation of 'The Don'

Started this morning while messing with the new eye/mouth setup (Lip synch switch interpolate - FV and "teeth" shap) and it developed into this over the day (while launching two websites...*huff*) - anyway - the shading thing is awesome... i was trying to use gradients before but couldnt work out how to control them properly... Thanks Vern - inspiration as always.

btw, that Larry character is AWESOME! *drool*

-------------
edit: sorry i just realised i hijacked your post without even answering your question... the cool thing about using gradients as 'halo' or 'soft edge' is that they are just simple shapes that go on your character in a stacking order - so you can use point or bone animation to manipulate the gradients... very cool. Also as an overall gradient, you could do what Vern suggested and have the shape mask a gradient layer that doesnt move.

Peace.

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:54 pm

Fuckly excellent!
Wow what NICE drawing!
-G

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:15 pm

I love it when I inspire people! Real ego boost!

Thanks!

p.s. Working in QuarkXpress all day... first time in nearly 10 years. Just like riding a bicycle... with square wheels and no pedals.

-vern

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:36 pm

*booooooooo* *hissssssssssss*

Quark *blah*... InDesign is the future!

Question about gradients

Question about gradients

Gradients