Moving control points in switch layers in the camera view

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:16 am

It looks like you are trying to find the "holy grail" of AS... the elusive head turn. Many adventurers have traveled down this path. Many have been lost and never heard from again. Others have succeeded with wild success. Do a search on the forum for "head turn" and you will see it is one of the most popular topics.

As for what you want to do with switch layers... hmm... not sure I understand completely what you are trying to do but I think it might be related to this topic:

viewtopic.php?t=4480

What this tutorial does is show you how to create "new" switch layers between existing ones. You can even pull the point motion out of the switch layer and use it as a regular vector layer transformation.

You can edit point motion on a switch. Just drag the points around by selecting the vector layer INSIDE the switch layer, not the switch layer itself. You can't edit point motion on the parent switch layer. You can only move points on the vector layers INSIDE that switch.

-vern

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:40 am

maybe you want to explore using actions instead of switch layers? the problem with switch layers is at SOME point one goes off and the other on. If you create poses in an action frame and then put those down, they are always 'tweakable' as well as having more control over your inbetweens?

Check out DarthFurby's headturn tutorial, and here is an example of something i did a long time ago smoothly going from front to 3/4...

http://www.vimeo.com/202212

Alternatively (again) you could put an 'inbetween' switch layer between the poses you dont want to move? (or create actions for A to B, B to A, and then just put them down just before you go from one to the other? (or just after... doesnt really matter)

DK · Post by DK » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:08 am

Just to add.....here is a character head turn that uses switch layers and interoplation like you were trying to do.

http://www.wienertoonz.com/alien.anme

D.K

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:34 pm

Hello DK

Ahhh....I see! You want to be able to use grouped Switch Layers to operate eyes mouth etc but you also want to be able to tweek the character as if it were one layer. This would be brilliant if it could be done.

Mee pour french personne, anglish bad, doo da best we cane to speek it

Hehehe, yeah, basically what I wanna do, too bad it cannot be done though, that would make my life tons easier, will try the trick in your file, many thanks!

Maybe v6 could have tools to allow that, that'd be awsome!

GC

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:37 pm

Hello all

It looks like you are trying to find the "holy grail" of AS... the elusive head turn.

Not the head turn, but as DK put it, a way to modify a stack of switches and actions as if they we're one layer, you setup an animation with library of premade poses and actions, then tweak it on top of it all!

That sort of usability would take ASPro out of the cutout type of animation and put it on par with any other professional package on the market, add to it a way to even tweak those further in graph mode in a non destructive manner and some better file handling/sharing capabilities and you end up with a mega production tool, just a tought!

Here is the file from DK with a bit of tweaking (btw, the way he used a mask for the nose is quite ingenious!

)

DKLayordturn_modified.mov 51.8 kb

DKLayordturn_modified.anme zip 3.99 kb

DK · Post by DK » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:04 am

Wow....looking at that animated layer ordering again made me realise you can animate the layer order of switch layers.

http://www.wienertoonz.com/DKLayordturn_modified2.anme

New discovery! I went into the modified file that GCharb re-uploaded to do add some switch layers. I opened up the main group layer and created a switch layer then dragged one of the layers that had animated layer ordering into the switch layer and to my amazement....the switch layer took on the animated layer ordering of it's sub layer!!!
I thought I would have to re-animate the layer ordering but no extra animation work had to be done at all!!! Neat!!

D.K

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:26 am

DK wrote:Wow....looking at that animated layer ordering again made me realise you can animate the layer order of switch layers.

http://www.wienertoonz.com/DKLayordturn_modified2.anme

New discovery! I went into the modified file that GCharb re-uploaded to do add some switch layers. I opened up the main group layer and created a switch layer then dragged one of the layers that had animated layer ordering into the switch layer and to my amazement....the switch layer took on the animated layer ordering of it's sub layer!!!
I thought I would have to re-animate the layer ordering but no extra animation work had to be done at all!!! Neat!!

D.K

Don't get too excited. Most likely that is due to how layer ordering keys are set and how they relate to layer positions. The keys for the layer ordering are in the parent layer and reference the layer by it's "ID" or order in the palette. By creating a new layer and moving one with keys into it you basically "replaced" the old one with the new one. It might not work the same in all situations.

-vern

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:27 am

Hello all!

Seems we are openning news ways of animating in AS Pro, great, having some ideas of my own as well, will work on them tonight.

Still, being able to point animate on top of switch layers and actions would make the process tons easier and would open endless possibilities

GC

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:37 am

GCharb wrote:Hello all

It looks like you are trying to find the "holy grail" of AS... the elusive head turn.
Not the head turn, but as DK put it, a way to modify a stack of switches and actions as if they we're one layer, you setup an animation with library of premade poses and actions, then tweak it on top of it all!

I still don't understand the process you are describing. You have switch layers... and... you want to edit the points on the time line... but... see... you can edit the points. If you create actions and add an action to a layer or layers you can also edit "on top" of the action that was added without effecting the original action. this works with action references as well.

Do you just want a way to edit the points "directly" in a switch without selecting the layer? A switch only works by activating one layer at a time. That is the basic principle. So if you edit the points of a switch in the time line... you are "adding" to the switch animation.

I just don't get it. I have absolutely no idea what it is you are describing. Can't get my head around it.

-vern

DK · Post by DK » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:40 am

GCarb is right......Just thinking.....would it be possible to make a script that could reach down into a multiple grouped character and pull out a snapshot copy of all points and paste them on a single vector layer on the timeline? This way a character could be tweeked as an inbetween like GCharb suggested. Vern's the one who could answer that.

Cheers
D.K

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:48 am

Hello Vern.

Perhaps it is me who's not getting all the infos, being new to AS Pro and all.

I will spend the weekend on the problem and will look at the forum for help and see what I find, thanks for the lead on.

GC

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:38 am

GCharb point to DK and cheers!

GC

GCharb · Post by **GCharb** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:34 am

Hello again.

Could not resist, had to put bits of colors on that head turn toon guy, here's the render.

Quicktime 267kb

My first collaborative work in AS Pro snif!

GC

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:49 am

Yeah, I'd have to agree with Vern about not understanding the need here. You want to be able to do point motion from a switch layer 'pose' without altering the original 'pose' layer, right?

If I understand this at all, I would think that you could just duplicate the last active vector layer, do your point motion here, and leave the original pose untouched so it is pristine for later.

That's all the sense I can make of this.

DK · Post by DK » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:47 am

I think GCharb wants to be able to assemble a character with multiple switch layers, animated the character...then be able to perform point motion tweeking on the entire character directly over all it's sub layers as if it were one layer.
I can understand this as I actually wanted to be able to do it at one stage....instead of having to go into your character, open up all the sub layers, find the right switch layer, then find the right sub layer you are using on that particular frame just to tweek it. Imagine a tool or set of tools that could spear through all the layers and manipulate the character points directly rather than having to open up all those layers ....You could tweek the points in switch layer sub layers directly.

My thoughts went to a script that could copy paste all the points on one frame from all layers and paste them to one vector layer for tweeking....

DK