Moving control points in switch layers in the camera view
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
It looks like you are trying to find the "holy grail" of AS... the elusive head turn. Many adventurers have traveled down this path. Many have been lost and never heard from again. Others have succeeded with wild success. Do a search on the forum for "head turn" and you will see it is one of the most popular topics.
As for what you want to do with switch layers... hmm... not sure I understand completely what you are trying to do but I think it might be related to this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=4480
What this tutorial does is show you how to create "new" switch layers between existing ones. You can even pull the point motion out of the switch layer and use it as a regular vector layer transformation.
You can edit point motion on a switch. Just drag the points around by selecting the vector layer INSIDE the switch layer, not the switch layer itself. You can't edit point motion on the parent switch layer. You can only move points on the vector layers INSIDE that switch.
-vern
As for what you want to do with switch layers... hmm... not sure I understand completely what you are trying to do but I think it might be related to this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=4480
What this tutorial does is show you how to create "new" switch layers between existing ones. You can even pull the point motion out of the switch layer and use it as a regular vector layer transformation.
You can edit point motion on a switch. Just drag the points around by selecting the vector layer INSIDE the switch layer, not the switch layer itself. You can't edit point motion on the parent switch layer. You can only move points on the vector layers INSIDE that switch.
-vern
- funksmaname
- Posts: 3174
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 11:31 am
- Location: New Zealand
maybe you want to explore using actions instead of switch layers? the problem with switch layers is at SOME point one goes off and the other on. If you create poses in an action frame and then put those down, they are always 'tweakable' as well as having more control over your inbetweens?
Check out DarthFurby's headturn tutorial, and here is an example of something i did a long time ago smoothly going from front to 3/4...
http://www.vimeo.com/202212
Alternatively (again) you could put an 'inbetween' switch layer between the poses you dont want to move? (or create actions for A to B, B to A, and then just put them down just before you go from one to the other? (or just after... doesnt really matter)
Check out DarthFurby's headturn tutorial, and here is an example of something i did a long time ago smoothly going from front to 3/4...
http://www.vimeo.com/202212
Alternatively (again) you could put an 'inbetween' switch layer between the poses you dont want to move? (or create actions for A to B, B to A, and then just put them down just before you go from one to the other? (or just after... doesnt really matter)
Just to add.....here is a character head turn that uses switch layers and interoplation like you were trying to do.
http://www.wienertoonz.com/alien.anme
D.K
http://www.wienertoonz.com/alien.anme
D.K
Hello DK

Hehehe, yeah, basically what I wanna do, too bad it cannot be done though, that would make my life tons easier, will try the trick in your file, many thanks!
Maybe v6 could have tools to allow that, that'd be awsome!
GC
Mee pour french personne, anglish bad, doo da best we cane to speek itAhhh....I see! You want to be able to use grouped Switch Layers to operate eyes mouth etc but you also want to be able to tweek the character as if it were one layer. This would be brilliant if it could be done.

Hehehe, yeah, basically what I wanna do, too bad it cannot be done though, that would make my life tons easier, will try the trick in your file, many thanks!
Maybe v6 could have tools to allow that, that'd be awsome!
GC
Hello all
That sort of usability would take ASPro out of the cutout type of animation and put it on par with any other professional package on the market, add to it a way to even tweak those further in graph mode in a non destructive manner and some better file handling/sharing capabilities and you end up with a mega production tool, just a tought!
Here is the file from DK with a bit of tweaking (btw, the way he used a mask for the nose is quite ingenious!
)

DKLayordturn_modified.mov 51.8 kb
DKLayordturn_modified.anme zip 3.99 kb
Not the head turn, but as DK put it, a way to modify a stack of switches and actions as if they we're one layer, you setup an animation with library of premade poses and actions, then tweak it on top of it all!It looks like you are trying to find the "holy grail" of AS... the elusive head turn.
That sort of usability would take ASPro out of the cutout type of animation and put it on par with any other professional package on the market, add to it a way to even tweak those further in graph mode in a non destructive manner and some better file handling/sharing capabilities and you end up with a mega production tool, just a tought!

Here is the file from DK with a bit of tweaking (btw, the way he used a mask for the nose is quite ingenious!


DKLayordturn_modified.mov 51.8 kb
DKLayordturn_modified.anme zip 3.99 kb
Wow....looking at that animated layer ordering again made me realise you can animate the layer order of switch layers.
http://www.wienertoonz.com/DKLayordturn_modified2.anme
New discovery! I went into the modified file that GCharb re-uploaded to do add some switch layers. I opened up the main group layer and created a switch layer then dragged one of the layers that had animated layer ordering into the switch layer and to my amazement....the switch layer took on the animated layer ordering of it's sub layer!!!
I thought I would have to re-animate the layer ordering but no extra animation work had to be done at all!!! Neat!!
D.K
http://www.wienertoonz.com/DKLayordturn_modified2.anme
New discovery! I went into the modified file that GCharb re-uploaded to do add some switch layers. I opened up the main group layer and created a switch layer then dragged one of the layers that had animated layer ordering into the switch layer and to my amazement....the switch layer took on the animated layer ordering of it's sub layer!!!
I thought I would have to re-animate the layer ordering but no extra animation work had to be done at all!!! Neat!!
D.K
Don't get too excited. Most likely that is due to how layer ordering keys are set and how they relate to layer positions. The keys for the layer ordering are in the parent layer and reference the layer by it's "ID" or order in the palette. By creating a new layer and moving one with keys into it you basically "replaced" the old one with the new one. It might not work the same in all situations.DK wrote:Wow....looking at that animated layer ordering again made me realise you can animate the layer order of switch layers.
http://www.wienertoonz.com/DKLayordturn_modified2.anme
New discovery! I went into the modified file that GCharb re-uploaded to do add some switch layers. I opened up the main group layer and created a switch layer then dragged one of the layers that had animated layer ordering into the switch layer and to my amazement....the switch layer took on the animated layer ordering of it's sub layer!!!
I thought I would have to re-animate the layer ordering but no extra animation work had to be done at all!!! Neat!!
D.K
-vern
I still don't understand the process you are describing. You have switch layers... and... you want to edit the points on the time line... but... see... you can edit the points. If you create actions and add an action to a layer or layers you can also edit "on top" of the action that was added without effecting the original action. this works with action references as well.GCharb wrote:Hello all
Not the head turn, but as DK put it, a way to modify a stack of switches and actions as if they we're one layer, you setup an animation with library of premade poses and actions, then tweak it on top of it all!It looks like you are trying to find the "holy grail" of AS... the elusive head turn.
Do you just want a way to edit the points "directly" in a switch without selecting the layer? A switch only works by activating one layer at a time. That is the basic principle. So if you edit the points of a switch in the time line... you are "adding" to the switch animation.
I just don't get it. I have absolutely no idea what it is you are describing. Can't get my head around it.
-vern
GCarb is right......Just thinking.....would it be possible to make a script that could reach down into a multiple grouped character and pull out a snapshot copy of all points and paste them on a single vector layer on the timeline? This way a character could be tweeked as an inbetween like GCharb suggested. Vern's the one who could answer that.
Cheers
D.K
Cheers
D.K
- synthsin75
- Posts: 10278
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:20 pm
- Location: Oklahoma
- Contact:
Yeah, I'd have to agree with Vern about not understanding the need here. You want to be able to do point motion from a switch layer 'pose' without altering the original 'pose' layer, right?
If I understand this at all, I would think that you could just duplicate the last active vector layer, do your point motion here, and leave the original pose untouched so it is pristine for later.
That's all the sense I can make of this.
If I understand this at all, I would think that you could just duplicate the last active vector layer, do your point motion here, and leave the original pose untouched so it is pristine for later.
That's all the sense I can make of this.

I think GCharb wants to be able to assemble a character with multiple switch layers, animated the character...then be able to perform point motion tweeking on the entire character directly over all it's sub layers as if it were one layer.
I can understand this as I actually wanted to be able to do it at one stage....instead of having to go into your character, open up all the sub layers, find the right switch layer, then find the right sub layer you are using on that particular frame just to tweek it. Imagine a tool or set of tools that could spear through all the layers and manipulate the character points directly rather than having to open up all those layers ....You could tweek the points in switch layer sub layers directly.
My thoughts went to a script that could copy paste all the points on one frame from all layers and paste them to one vector layer for tweeking....
DK
I can understand this as I actually wanted to be able to do it at one stage....instead of having to go into your character, open up all the sub layers, find the right switch layer, then find the right sub layer you are using on that particular frame just to tweek it. Imagine a tool or set of tools that could spear through all the layers and manipulate the character points directly rather than having to open up all those layers ....You could tweek the points in switch layer sub layers directly.
My thoughts went to a script that could copy paste all the points on one frame from all layers and paste them to one vector layer for tweeking....
DK